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Darkvalkyrie

Force Dice Commitment Issue?

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Sent this through yesterday through my phone, but for some reason it is not showing.

I am having a hard time understanding Force Dice Commitment rule.  In theory I understand it, but in practice I do not.

Lets say John made a Jedi Consular character and starts with a Force Rating of 1 - meaning any Force Powers he uses, he rolls 1 Force Die to generate the effects.  After playing several games he finally reaches the +1 Force Rating upgrade.  He's happy because now he has a Force Rating of 2.  He wants to purchase Battlemind as it has a pre-req of FR:2 and plays a few more games finally reaching the Duration Upgrade. 

This is where things do not make sense.  According to the duration upgrade, he has to commit 3 Force Dice, but he only has a rating of 2.  He could in essence master the entire Battlemind power and never be able to use Duration upgrade until he has at least a FR:3.

Am I missing something?

To effectively use this power he actually would need a Force Rating of 4, because the rules state when you commit Force Dice, your rating lowers.  If you have a Force Rating of 3 and commit 3 Force Dice, you do not have any Force dice left to even use the basic power.

Can someone please clarify the Force Commitment rule?

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3 hours ago, Darkvalkyrie said:

Sent this through yesterday through my phone, but for some reason it is not showing.

I am having a hard time understanding Force Dice Commitment rule.  In theory I understand it, but in practice I do not.

Lets say John made a Jedi Consular character and starts with a Force Rating of 1 - meaning any Force Powers he uses, he rolls 1 Force Die to generate the effects.  After playing several games he finally reaches the +1 Force Rating upgrade.  He's happy because now he has a Force Rating of 2.  He wants to purchase Battlemind as it has a pre-req of FR:2 and plays a few more games finally reaching the Duration Upgrade. 

This is where things do not make sense.  According to the duration upgrade, he has to commit 3 Force Dice, but he only has a rating of 2.  He could in essence master the entire Battlemind power and never be able to use Duration upgrade until he has at least a FR:3.

Am I missing something?

To effectively use this power he actually would need a Force Rating of 4, because the rules state when you commit Force Dice, your rating lowers.  If you have a Force Rating of 3 and commit 3 Force Dice, you do not have any Force dice left to even use the basic power.

Can someone please clarify the Force Commitment rule?

When commiting force dice that commited force die is no longer available for rolling. You can buy a force power that teqires commiting 3 force dice but it wont do you any good till you have 3 force dice to commit

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AFAIK, when you commit the dice as part of a power activation, it happens after the power is activated, so you have all three dice available to make the roll to activate. You just don't have them available afterward (until you un-commit them).

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On 5/26/2019 at 7:14 AM, Darkvalkyrie said:

To effectively use this power he actually would need a Force Rating of 4, because the rules state when you commit Force Dice, your rating lowers.  If you have a Force Rating of 3 and commit 3 Force Dice, you do not have any Force dice left to even use the basic power.

Can someone please clarify the Force Commitment rule?

I still allow you to commit up to your Force Dice in one or more powers.  I can see how that would make you think the Force Rating is now 0 and therefore not be able to have them committed but I treat it more like I do Wound Threshold and Current Wounds.  You have a True Force Rating of 3.  Your Active Force Rating is 3 minus committed dice.

You are still using the Force and have it flowing through you but you are at your limit and unable to activate other powers until you uncommit one or more.

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On 5/26/2019 at 6:14 AM, Darkvalkyrie said:

To effectively use this power he actually would need a Force Rating of 4, because the rules state when you commit Force Dice, your rating lowers.  If you have a Force Rating of 3 and commit 3 Force Dice, you do not have any Force dice left to even use the basic power.

Can someone please clarify the Force Commitment rule?

Most people, and I'm pretty sure the devs, have you commit the die AFTER the power has been activated.  Think of it as the amount of Force awareness and concentration, that they have to maintain, to keep a power running.  That's how I've always envisioned it.   When they have their eyes closed, concentrating, while they are sustaining some prolonged effect.   That's sort of the thematic representation of committing a die.  

So you roll the die to see if you actually tap into the Force, and trigger the thing you want to do, and then you commit however many die required to keep it going.  If this is more die than you can commit (it takes 3, but your rating is only 2), then you can't commit for that specific effect just yet.  You need to train, and grow stronger in the Force.   If it takes exactly the number of your rating, then it's taking all of your Force concentration to sustain that effect, and until you release your hold on that flow of the Force, you can't do anything else Forcey related.   If you have any Force die left over after committing, then you can attempt other uses of the Force, while sustaining that effect.

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So it is better to say Basic power trumps then the upgrades follow, rather than all aspects at once.

I'm understanding the use of Battle Meditation and the Range Aspect as follows...

Turn 1 - Roll Force Dice as normal (Basic Power & Range Upgrade)
Turn 2 - I commit the Force Dice to use the Duration aspect (Basic Power & Range Upgrade is still active based on the rolls made on Turn 1?)
Turn 3 - I cannot use any Force Dice on any Force Powers as I am still using them to keep the duration going (Basic Power & Range Upgrade is still active based on the rolls made on Turn 1?)

 

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3 hours ago, Darkvalkyrie said:

So it is better to say Basic power trumps then the upgrades follow, rather than all aspects at once.

I'm understanding the use of Battle Meditation and the Range Aspect as follows...

Turn 1 - Roll Force Dice as normal (Basic Power & Range Upgrade)
Turn 2 - I commit the Force Dice to use the Duration aspect (Basic Power & Range Upgrade is still active based on the rolls made on Turn 1?)
Turn 3 - I cannot use any Force Dice on any Force Powers as I am still using them to keep the duration going (Basic Power & Range Upgrade is still active based on the rolls made on Turn 1?)

 

No. By RAW, when you activate a given Force power, you must activate all of the upgrades you plan on using when you activate the power. To bring up different upgrades at a later time, you have to drop the power and re-roll your Force dice. 

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Then that brings me back to my original issue...to use the basic power (1 Force Die), the range upgrade (1 Force Die), and the Duration (Committing 3 Force Dice, I will need a Force Rating of 5 to use this power.

Again is this correct?

It just bothers me that you can master the entire talent tree of the Battle Meditation before reach Force Rating 3 and not be able to use Duration upgrade.

Sorry but I'm still confused on this rule of committing Force Dice and the awful low ratings of Force Dice use in this game. I think this committing Force Dice rule is a terrible rule.

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Posted (edited)

No, that's not correct. It should go like this, all on a single turn:

1) Declare using Battle Meditation.

2) Roll your Force dice (minimum 2 to purchase the power).

3) Assign your force pips to the effects you want to occur, so they are affecting the people you want affected.

4) If you have at least 3 Force Die, you can choose to commit them to maintaining the effect you just created, as long as the affected stay within the range you set with Step 3 or you choose to drop it. During the period your dice are commited, you cannot use them for any other Force effects.

I hope this helps.

Edited by Vek Baustrade
Typos.

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Here's an example: 

My hypothetical character has FR 3 and has purchased all of the Battle Meditation tree. I want to add successes to my two companions to make the upcoming fight easier. On my turn, I roll my force dice and get 4 light side side pips on my 3 dice. Since I have the entire Battle Meditation tree, I spend 1 pip on Magnitude to cover my 2 friends (and up to 3 more characters if I had that many friends). I spend a second pip to increase the ability's range from engaged to long. I spend the third pip to add a single success to the affected party members (activating the basic power). I have one pip left, but not a ton to use it on in this circumstance. I could extend range further, if necessary, or, if I had more companions, I could choose to buff them as well.

After I've decided how I want to spend my pips, I can choose to commit my 3 Force dice to maintain this effect on everyone until I stop on a later turn or they move out of long range of me. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2019 at 6:13 PM, Vek Baustrade said:

Here's an example: 

My hypothetical character has FR 3 and has purchased all of the Battle Meditation tree. I want to add successes to my two companions to make the upcoming fight easier. On my turn, I roll my force dice and get 4 light side side pips on my 3 dice. Since I have the entire Battle Meditation tree, I spend 1 pip on Magnitude to cover my 2 friends (and up to 3 more characters if I had that many friends). I spend a second pip to increase the ability's range from engaged to long. I spend the third pip to add a single success to the affected party members (activating the basic power). I have one pip left, but not a ton to use it on in this circumstance. I could extend range further, if necessary, or, if I had more companions, I could choose to buff them as well.

If I assume your Presence score is at least 2, with four light side pips, the entire BM talent tree and two other PCs; I would have said: 

  • First (basic power): you may spend one pip to add one automatic success to all checks made by a number of engaged friendly targets up to his Presence (so two other PCs) before the end of your next turn.
  • Second (range 3): Spend one pip to increase Battle Meditation to long range.
  • Third: with two pips left, you can spend two pips to add one additional automatic success to affected characters checks (strength) or affect 16 other characters (Presence 2 per Magnitude 4 per 2 pips).

Also, don't forget the uses of Control and Mastery upgrades.

Edited by Ali Mesratep

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On 6/2/2019 at 3:30 PM, Darkvalkyrie said:

Then that brings me back to my original issue...to use the basic power (1 Force Die), the range upgrade (1 Force Die), and the Duration (Committing 3 Force Dice, I will need a Force Rating of 5 to use this power.

Again is this correct?

It just bothers me that you can master the entire talent tree of the Battle Meditation before reach Force Rating 3 and not be able to use Duration upgrade.

Sorry but I'm still confused on this rule of committing Force Dice and the awful low ratings of Force Dice use in this game. I think this committing Force Dice rule is a terrible rule.

I don't know if this has been resolved for you, but to me it sounds like you think you commit force rating and therefore force dice by purchasing the force power. This is not how the committing force dices work, you don't commit your force dice by purchasing a force power, you commit force dices when you activate it and want to sustain the effects, this will temporarily lock an amount of FR to the force power while the power is being sustained, effectively lowering your FR by that amount until you stop sustaining that force power. 

I hope this help clear some of your confusion. 

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