Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
fyrm

Kaito procedure

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Salutations. So, I tried to look for the answer for this, but couldn’t find it, so here we go! What is the exact steps taken by a Kaito using their school ability? As I read it, they spend an action and roll their [ring+theology] for the spell, and that is it? They can’t channel, they can’t choose to make a sacrifice to Reroll blanks, nothing else?

Do they suffer elemental backlash? If so, when the arrow is charged or when it is fired? And does it effect the terrain around the arrow, or them? If the arrow when it hits, you may wish to trigger some backlash to get enemies stuck in the mud from water, or in flames for fire. 

I’m probably overthinking this, but not being able to channel your spells seems a bit off to me, even if you’re putting them into an arrow, and getting to trigger backlash on top of enemies seems a bit strong, although I suppose that maybe balances out? 

 

Idk, sorry for the ramblings. Thoughts?

Edited by fyrm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, fyrm said:

Salutations. So, I tried to look for the answer for this, but couldn’t find it, so here we go! What is the exact steps taken by a Kaito using their school ability? As I read it, they spend an action and roll their [ring+theology] for the spell, and that is it? They can’t channel, they can’t choose to make a sacrifice to Reroll blanks, nothing else?

Do they suffer elemental backlash? If so, when the arrow is charged or when it is fired? And does it effect the terrain around the arrow, or them? If the arrow when it hits, you may wish to trigger some backlash to get enemies stuck in the mud from water, or in flames for fire. 

I’m probably overthinking this, but not being able to channel your spells seems a bit off to me, even if you’re putting them into an arrow, and getting to trigger backlash on top of enemies seems a bit strong, although I suppose that maybe balances out? 

 

Idk, sorry for the ramblings. Thoughts?

They can do all of the channeling, importune, elemental backlash. I guess. Don't oversweat it, the game is whatever you feel like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Breaking it down:
 

Quote

 

As an action, you may augment one of your arrows with a prayer to the kami.

Make the check to perform one invocation you know, reducing the TN by your school rank, and record the result.

The arrow gains the Sacred quality, and remains infused with the invocation until the end of the scene.

After you perform an Attack action using the arrow (or fire it at a location, at the GM’s discretion), you may resolve the effects of the invocation from the place the arrow landed.

You may spend 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343+ to delay resolving the effects of the invocation for 1 round per 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343  spent this way, and may spend 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf413431211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 from a failed check to affect one target of the attack that you missed.

 

  1. Sacred Arrows is an action, 'nested within which' is an invocation action (because invocation techniques are all actions to use).
  2. The invocation action is 'perform one invocation you know' - there is nothing implying normal rules affecting invocations would not work (such as offerings)
    1. There is a question whether the rules on page 190-191  for channelling, backlash, and offerings do apply because the Kaito don't have the [Shujenga] school tag, but that is a general rule, not one specific to Sacred Arrows.
  3. Nothing stops the Kaito using any invocation normally.
  4. Channelling can be done as part of any invocation (which the Sacred Arrows action contains).
    1. It's not normally useful in Sacred Arrows because you'll channel one turn, then Attack with the Bow (and sacred arrow) the next, meaning channelled dice are lost. If you augmented an arrow one turn then used a different invocation normally the next, I don't see why kept dice couldn't be used.
  5. Spiritual Backlash either will or won't occur (see above for your view on P190-191) but if it does it would occur immediately. It doesn't care if you passed, failed, or whether the effect is immediate or delayed; it is triggered by having 1518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f01518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f01518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f0 on your kept dice on an invocation check. The check happens as part of your Sacred Arrows action.
    1. Earth & Water backlash explicitly centre on the person performing the invocation. Fire does not, but if it occurs when you suffer backlash on the check, you must still be holding the augmented arrow since you haven't had a chance to attack with it yet.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Breaking it down:
 

  1. Sacred Arrows is an action, 'nested within which' is an invocation action (because invocation techniques are all actions to use).
  2. The invocation action is 'perform one invocation you know' - there is nothing implying normal rules affecting invocations would not work (such as offerings)
    1. There is a question whether the rules on page 190-191  for channelling, backlash, and offerings do apply because the Kaito don't have the [Shujenga] school tag, but that is a general rule, not one specific to Sacred Arrows.
  3. Nothing stops the Kaito using any invocation normally.
  4. Channelling can be done as part of any invocation (which the Sacred Arrows action contains).
    1. It's not normally useful in Sacred Arrows because you'll channel one turn, then Attack with the Bow (and sacred arrow) the next, meaning channelled dice are lost. If you augmented an arrow one turn then used a different invocation normally the next, I don't see why kept dice couldn't be used.
  5. Spiritual Backlash either will or won't occur (see above for your view on P190-191) but if it does it would occur immediately. It doesn't care if you passed, failed, or whether the effect is immediate or delayed; it is triggered by having 1518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f01518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f01518491343_StrifeSmall.png.6434e11e967f0 on your kept dice on an invocation check. The check happens as part of your Sacred Arrows action.
    1. Earth & Water backlash explicitly centre on the person performing the invocation. Fire does not, but if it occurs when you suffer backlash on the check, you must still be holding the augmented arrow since you haven't had a chance to attack with it yet.

 

 

This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! All of that makes sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a couple of extra points:

  • With regards to the 'school tag' question - I personally come down heavily on the side that P190 uses the phrase "the shujenga" as a convenient shorthand for 'the character performing the invocation' and that the [shujenga] school tag is not required. NPCs don't have school tags, but the spiritual backlash rules specifically tell the GM how to handle the situation when an NPC triggers spiritual backlash, implying they (and hence other characters without the [shujenga] tag) can cause it.
  • Whilst any character who knows at least one invocation can importune other invocations (albeit requiring a suitable offering and at a sharply increased TN), the requirement for Sacred Arrows to be a known invocation means you can't combine importune invocation with Sacred Arrows. That, combined with the fact that the Kaito don't get unrestricted technique class access to invocations, is probably intended in part to minimise the number of invocations a shrine keeper has access to which don't 'make sense' in the context of Sacred Arrows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All very good points.

Two things; no problem with the Kaito using Importune Invocation with Sacred Arrow. It is not gamebreaking whatsoever. The Kaito can already Importune while casting regularly, that it is on their arrow doesn't change much.

And, never overestimate the designers and what they "intend". If some of the clarifications they gave before, or the quality of the live play they did, are anything to go by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

The Kaito can already Importune while casting regularly

Agreed, but the restriction on Sacred Arrows being a known technique is a pretty unambiguous one (nice to know they can do this...). It's more a case that specifically in the case of sacred arrows 'relocating' the point the invocation takes effect from to an enemy character or a point on the ground, a fair proportion of invocations accessible via importune invocations don't work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed, but the restriction on Sacred Arrows being a known technique is a pretty unambiguous one (nice to know they can do this...). It's more a case that specifically in the case of sacred arrows 'relocating' the point the invocation takes effect from to an enemy character or a point on the ground, a fair proportion of invocations accessible via importune invocations don't work.

Nothing game breaking, I'm quite certain.
But yes, it is "ambiguous"... which is standard for this game. Though, I personally prefer to allow things unless it is very clearly written, or blatantly overpowered.
In the case of the importune Kami on sacred arrow, it is easy to control, the character still needs a unique/rare item and probably just changing the location of the spell source is really not going to make it suddenly overpowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...