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player2072913

Sunny Bounder and once-per-opportunity

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While you defend or perform an attack, after you roll or reroll your dice, if you have the same result on each of your dice, you may add 1 matching result.

 

Sunny is attacking and rolls two blanks so I add a third. Then I spend a lock to re-roll all 3 blanks into 3 hits. Can I then add a 4th hit? 

I would have assumed no, due to the once-per-opportunity rule. But, since the ability says 'after you roll or reroll' are there actually two opportunities there? One opportunity triggered after you roll, and another opportunity after you reroll. 

 

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9 minutes ago, player2072913 said:

While you defend or perform an attack, after you roll or reroll your dice, if you have the same result on each of your dice, you may add 1 matching result.

 

Sunny is attacking and rolls two blanks so I add a third. Then I spend a lock to re-roll all 3 blanks into 3 hits. Can I then add a 4th hit? 

I would have assumed no, due to the once-per-opportunity rule. But, since the ability says 'after you roll or reroll' are there actually two opportunities there? One opportunity triggered after you roll, and another opportunity after you reroll. 

 

They are separate opportunities.

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

They are separate opportunities.

agreed. you can do it again after you reroll. i like this for mangler cannon, if you're lucky enough. just roll four crits with an enemy at range one in bullseye, add a crit, then reroll with a lock and roll five crits, giving you a grand total of six crits. ^_^

or just blank out on the first roll, then roll all crits. it's very likely to occur.

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I disagree.  The opportunity is 'while you defend or attack' - the timing of the ability provides the opportunity - it simply has two possibel triggers.

Consider an anaologous ability: anakin's.  You don't get to spend two force to remove two stress if there is a ship at r1 arc AND a ship at r3 bullseye.  You get one opportunity - after executing a manouevre - with two possible triggers you can use.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I disagree.  The opportunity is 'while you defend or attack' - the timing of the ability provides the opportunity - it simply has two possibel triggers.

Consider an anaologous ability: anakin's.  You don't get to spend two force to remove two stress if there is a ship at r1 arc AND a ship at r3 bullseye.  You get one opportunity - after executing a manouevre - with two possible triggers you can use.

The wording outlines 4 windows of opportunity. Attack roll, defense roll, attack re-roll and defence re-roll.

Why the change in opinion?

 

Edited by Hiemfire

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Because I changed my mind.

 

The wording outlines one timing trigger and two effect triggers.

 

On third thought, I'm not sure it's clear HOW that should work.  But equally, the anakin question is a relevant one - there's one timing, but two effect triggwers, if you're doubel stressed can you spend two force to remove both?

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5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

They are separate opportunities.

Based on Han's ruling, i agree. Adding die results is a dice modification and i cant find where there is any limit to how many times those effects can trigger.

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To the best of my knowledge Sunny is the only card that has multiple non-exclusive triggers (roll or re-roll) within a larger multi-step trigger (while attacking).

21 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The wording outlines 4 windows of opportunity. Attack roll, defense roll, attack re-roll and defence re-roll.

I think that cross-multiplying the opportunities is the correct interpretation.

The way the commas are laid out in Sunny's ability do leave ambiguity though... It's impossible to tell whether "after you roll or reroll dice" is a subset of- or a separate clause from "while you defend or perform an attack" and there is no further context to clarify since it's a single sentence, nor is there any precedent that I can find.

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21 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The wording outlines 4 windows of opportunity. Attack roll, defense roll, attack re-roll and defence re-roll.

Actually I just thought of an additional scenario: because Sunny can conceivably get multiple reroll sources does each reroll count as a separate opportunity?

Here's my convoluted example: Sunny has a lock on her target at range 1 and an enemy equipped with M9-G8 has a lock on her. Sunny rolls all hits (3 hits) and adds one more (4 hits) then M9' forces Sunny to re-roll one of those and it comes up hit again so she adds another (5 hits). Now the question I'm posing is can she reach for extra damage by spending the lock to reroll another die and if that also comes up a hit add one more for 6 hits total?

Tangential question: how many separate reroll effects can Sunny get? That would be the theoretical cap on how many dice she can add to an attack. On defense I don't think she can get any more than the one reroll from Serisu.

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19 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

Actually I just thought of an additional scenario: because Sunny can conceivably get multiple reroll sources does each reroll count as a separate opportunity?

Here's my convoluted example: Sunny has a lock on her target at range 1 and an enemy equipped with M9-G8 has a lock on her. Sunny rolls all hits (3 hits) and adds one more (4 hits) then M9' forces Sunny to re-roll one of those and it comes up hit again so she adds another (5 hits). Now the question I'm posing is can she reach for extra damage by spending the lock to reroll another die and if that also comes up a hit add one more for 6 hits total?

Tangential question: how many separate reroll effects can Sunny get? That would be the theoretical cap on how many dice she can add to an attack. On defense I don't think she can get any more than the one reroll from Serisu.

I think it chains. The potency is reigned in by the extremely unlikely chance of the chain happening.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

 

Tangential question: how many separate reroll effects can Sunny get? That would be the theoretical cap on how many dice she can add to an attack. On defense I don't think she can get any more than the one reroll from Serisu.

I was thinking about this earlier. M9G8 is a good idea. In a similar vein you can get defensive rerolls from saturation salvo. 

Assuming you have magic dice that always come up hit/evade, you can also pump up the numbers with an APT (8 hits), or r3 defending through a rock with Stealth Device against saturation salvo with Serisu nearby (8 evades) 

 

Edit: Heck, if you want to get really silly you can get up to 10 evades by stuffing two tactical scramblers into that squad too. 

 

Edit Edit: You can get to 11 evades if the attacker is an Andrasta Firespray with saturation salvo and Zuckus crew. 

Edited by player2072913

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On 5/20/2019 at 10:18 AM, player2072913 said:

While you defend or perform an attack, after you roll or reroll your dice,

This is grammatically equivalent to

"After you roll or reroll  your dice while you defend or perform an attack", which is more clearly two opportunities. The "while you defend or ... attack" bit merely clarifies she doesn't work when rolling dice for things like obstacle or bomb damage.

And the reason FFG had to go the verbose route and say "rolling dice while attacking" instead of simply "rolling attack dice" is because the red dice are always named "attack dice", no matter what they're used for. [Rules Ref.]

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