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N-1 Naboo Starfighter Preview!

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Just now, Pa Weasley said:

Except there's no evade on the N-1's action bar so the Handmaidens need to go full throttle or have Plo play pass the purple evade. 

Indeed. Handmaidens are indeed powerful bodyguards, but there are limits to their capabilities. Shutting down Full Throttle makes the N-1 as a whole a very vulnerable ship.

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Here are some thoughts I posted to a FB group:

I have to admit that I am worried about some aspects of the game with this release.  I've found 3 Jedi lists to be particularly nasty to deal with and incredibly arc dodgy.  I mean, 3 green dice and Force points if you are lucky to get someone in range has been pretty rough to face off against.  There are some new things that make it a bit scary to me.

The free Evade is pretty powerful to me.  These better not be too cheap or it will be hard to kill these things.  Add in that they can carry Torps and they just might be nasty glass cannons that are hard to kill.

The Handmaidens seem the worst as they can make someone like Anakin near impossible to destroy first, which makes him really strong in the end game.  There are other ships, too, that they buff, of course.  I find the Jedi hard enough to kill and now they will be even worse.   If you manage to actually out fly one, you still might not hit them.  Since they get the Evade for free, it will be tough.

Padme will also make it difficult to actually get hits on people, including herself.  I mean, you can only mod one die, not matter who you shoot at.  She will have an Evade and might have Handmaidens to back her up.  I can see 2 Handmaidens, Padme, and a Jedi jousting and doing alright with all the toys.  

R2-A6 is going to be terrible on Anakin.  He's already squirrelly enough in the hands of a good player, but you might get to out fly him and he STILL avoids you with changing speed and Jedi ship powers. 

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it just seems like a lot of OP stuff all in a faction that will make things tougher.  I don't see the V-19 Torrents getting used after these guys come out.  Republican turns into the arc dodgy Naboo and Jedi faction with occasional ARCs.

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19 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Here are some thoughts I posted to a FB group:

I have to admit that I am worried about some aspects of the game with this release.  I've found 3 Jedi lists to be particularly nasty to deal with and incredibly arc dodgy.  I mean, 3 green dice and Force points if you are lucky to get someone in range has been pretty rough to face off against.  There are some new things that make it a bit scary to me.

The free Evade is pretty powerful to me.  These better not be too cheap or it will be hard to kill these things.  Add in that they can carry Torps and they just might be nasty glass cannons that are hard to kill.

The Handmaidens seem the worst as they can make someone like Anakin near impossible to destroy first, which makes him really strong in the end game.  There are other ships, too, that they buff, of course.  I find the Jedi hard enough to kill and now they will be even worse.   If you manage to actually out fly one, you still might not hit them.  Since they get the Evade for free, it will be tough.

Padme will also make it difficult to actually get hits on people, including herself.  I mean, you can only mod one die, not matter who you shoot at.  She will have an Evade and might have Handmaidens to back her up.  I can see 2 Handmaidens, Padme, and a Jedi jousting and doing alright with all the toys.  

R2-A6 is going to be terrible on Anakin.  He's already squirrelly enough in the hands of a good player, but you might get to out fly him and he STILL avoids you with changing speed and Jedi ship powers. 

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it just seems like a lot of OP stuff all in a faction that will make things tougher.  I don't see the V-19 Torrents getting used after these guys come out.  Republican turns into the arc dodgy Naboo and Jedi faction with occasional ARCs.

As far as the chassis goes, the free evade is balanced by the 2 green dice/5 HP; it makes it more survivable, but it's still very much hittable. Additionally, one of the reasons Full Throttle is so strong on the Defender is that white 4k. N-1s will not have the option to turn around with a free evade. Compared to Defenders, N-1s gain less from Full Throttle, but also rely on it more and can't keep it online as consistently.

The Handmaidens will be powerful, but their ability does allow for some counterplay. N-1s do not have Evade on their action bar, so Handmaidens rely on Full Throttle, which means they want to formation fly at speed, so disrupting the formation should be possible.

Padme's ability isn't quite as strong as you suggest. She doesn't prevent you from modding all your dice; she only prevents modding eyeball results beyond the first. Sucks when you roll a bunch of eyeballs, otherwise not a big deal. On most rolls she will lock out either 1 or 0 dice.

R2-A6 will probably scale on initiative, and I would guess it will be priced similar to BB-8. It's not as big a reposition as a boost/barrel roll, but it is also not limited by charge.

I'm not convinced that the N-1 will be cheap enough to compete with the Torrent as generic list filler. I would expect the cheapest I2s to be somewhere in the 34-36 range (2 points for shields over hull, 1-2 more for a vastly improved dial, the rest for Full Throttle and an improved upgrade suite). When you've got 50-60 points left over, two Torrents or one ARC will still be the choice.

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8 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

The free Evade is pretty powerful to me.  These better not be too cheap or it will be hard to kill these things.  Add in that they can carry Torps and they just might be nasty glass cannons that are hard to kill.

The Handmaidens seem the worst as they can make someone like Anakin near impossible to destroy first, which makes him really strong in the end game.  There are other ships, too, that they buff, of course.  I find the Jedi hard enough to kill and now they will be even worse.   If you manage to actually out fly one, you still might not hit them.  Since they get the Evade for free, it will be tough.

I believe most of our opinions about Full Throttle (FT) are influenced by the Defender, which is an entirely different beast. In comparison N1s have only limited amount of maneuvers which can trigger FT and, unlike TIE/D, they can't turn around and Evade, since FT says perform action. Thus the N1 will have troubles staying in fight AND Evading all the time. 

With their limited options to trigger FT, the lost art of blocking will be paramount for lower Initiative pilots.

 

17 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Padme will also make it difficult to actually get hits on people, including herself.  I mean, you can only mod one die, not matter who you shoot at.  

From what you said Padmé should actually make you happy since she is one of the only things somewhat countering Force. 

34 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I can see 2 Handmaidens, Padme, and a Jedi jousting and doing alright with all the toys.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it just seems like a lot of OP stuff all in a faction that will make things tougher.  I don't see the V-19 Torrents getting used after these guys come out.  Republican turns into the arc dodgy Naboo and Jedi faction with occasional ARCs.

From what we've heard and seen, I believe that Anakin(7b)/Padmé/2xHandmaiden will fit, but won't leave much room for toys, especially Jukes or Torpedoes. Then it's important to remind ourselves of the actual statline - 2/2/3/2 - there's only so much tricks and Evades can do, with 2agi and 5hp these things will go down when focused. 2att, limited access to double mods and no points for Juke or Torps mean that their output won't be great against beefier lists (unlike TIE or RZ-2 swarms which too have 2att but their attacks are very reliable). 

I don't see N1d replacing Torrents as in the popular builds as even small price difference will be noticeable with these expensive Jedi.

 

53 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

R2-A6 is going to be terrible on Anakin.  He's already squirrelly enough in the hands of a good player, but you might get to out fly him and he STILL avoids you with changing speed and Jedi ship powers. 

If he "STILL" avoids you then I'd say you didn't actually outfly him. 

Also R2-A6 means no R2 for Anakin, So once he's at half there's no going back.

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Posted (edited)

This ship is rather fast compared to the way it was depicted in Legends (when it was only marginally faster than an X-wing).

White boost, white speed 5 - makes it close to TIE Interceptor in speed.

 

I think, back when people were trying to homebrew stats for this ship - they went with a more X-wing-ish speed profile.

Edited by Ironlord

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Posted (edited)

Eh is definitely say any worries about late game pilots are pretty exaggerated

 

Then again, I'm remembering the first ed horror show

This game is so much better in that nothing (outside handjake han) resembles that travesty 

More concerned in a general sense, ie it's incredibly potent defensive tech for anyone (aside from maybe my poor 1 agi arcs :/ ) 

Anakin is way too expensive to make two handmaidens worth it, considering we can only get him with another Jedi and two torrents. Downgrading that second Jedi seems in no way worth it to me

But suppose instead of Obi and 3 arcs we get obi and 3 passive sensor torp n1s (two of them being maidens)

Or Lumy, Padme; double maidens (which could get pretty bricky)

Poor arc could be obseleted real **** quick 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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52 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

This ship is rather fast compared to the way it was depicted in Legends (when it was only marginally faster than an X-wing).

White boost, white speed 5 - makes it close to TIE Interceptor in speed.

 

I think, back when people were trying to homebrew stats for this ship - they went with a more X-wing-ish speed profile.

Obviously legends was wrong. Look at the size of those engines!

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37 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Eh is definitely say any worries about late game pilots are pretty exaggerated

 

Then again, I'm remembering the first ed horror show

This game is so much better in that nothing (outside handjake han) resembles that travesty 

More concerned in a general sense, ie it's incredibly potent defensive tech for anyone (aside from maybe my poor 1 agi arcs :/ ) 

Anakin is way too expensive to make two handmaidens worth it, considering we can only get him with another Jedi and two torrents. Downgrading that second Jedi seems in no way worth it to me

But suppose instead of Obi and 3 arcs we get obi and 3 passive sensor torp n1s (two of them being maidens)

Or Lumy, Padme; double maidens (which could get pretty bricky)

Poor arc could be obseleted real **** quick 

Both arc and torrents can be obsoleted quickly because currently its mostly their naked generics carrying weight. (Arc does have a few other good pilots, options), and as combo wing pitches up, generic value goes down. Just see the 1.0 history of the Bwing. 

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23 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I think the two ships that can use Passive Sensors the most are the Tie Punishers and Hyena Bombers.  Something with the ability to take Torpedoes and isn't easy to kill is the best user. 

Tie Punishers are beefy enough and means taking a low Init ship is viable now.  It can be loaded with Bombs, Missiles, and the necessary Torpedoes. 

Hyenas can use other Calc tokens for defense and even offense.  It can bring some serious punch to a list that has 2 red dice attacks.  Hyenas can also bring a number of toys, like the Punisher.  Even the higher Init Hyenas could use it.

I think FCS is an under appreciated System that is super cheap.  The real benefit for taking a different option is having a low Init.

Actually, it'll be great on just about every Vulture - they need their calculates, and are often flying with ECS stapled to them.  At initiative 1, they need the boost in being able to get those charges off while still being able to soak at least one hit.  Passive Sensors makes them just a little bit better.

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2 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Actually, it'll be great on just about every Vulture - they need their calculates, and are often flying with ECS stapled to them.  At initiative 1, they need the boost in being able to get those charges off while still being able to soak at least one hit.  Passive Sensors makes them just a little bit better.

Vultures don't have the Sensor slot though.

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3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it just seems like a lot of OP stuff all in a faction that will make things tougher.  I don't see the V-19 Torrents getting used after these guys come out.  Republican turns into the arc dodgy Naboo and Jedi faction with occasional ARCs.

I wouldn't be surprised at this - I think the V-19s were there to start Republic off before getting into the good stuff.  They get people used to the skirmish line tactics that seem to be coming into focus as the Republic identity solidifies.

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31 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

I wouldn't be surprised at this - I think the V-19s were there to start Republic off before getting into the good stuff.  They get people used to the skirmish line tactics that seem to be coming into focus as the Republic identity solidifies.

you've gotta REALLY underprice n1s to utterly overwhelm the economy of the Gold Squadron scrub

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1 hour ago, Ironlord said:

This ship is rather fast compared to the way it was depicted in Legends (when it was only marginally faster than an X-wing).

White boost, white speed 5 - makes it close to TIE Interceptor in speed.

 

I think, back when people were trying to homebrew stats for this ship - they went with a more X-wing-ish speed profile.

Probably should have been a red boost, IMO.

Kinda sad that they're not really leaning into that more as a point of differentiation. Engine Upgrade is a thing, but there's actually very few ships it can go on. Just the three flavours of YT-1300 and the HWK, IIRC. 

Also, is there any ship with a red 5 forward? It's another good way of making ships just slightly slower than a near equivalent. It works well on Y-Wings vs X-Wings with their red 4 forward (I like that Y-Wings in this game are only slightly slower but noticeably slower than the X-Wing - fits better with what we see on screen than the super slow video game interpretations, if you ask me)

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2 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Also, is there any ship with a red 5 forward? It's another good way of making ships just slightly slower than a near equivalent.

Hyena Bomber and Modified TIE/Ln come immediately to mind.

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47 minutes ago, Maui. said:

As far as the chassis goes, the free evade is balanced by the 2 green dice/5 HP; it makes it more survivable, but it's still very much hittable. Additionally, one of the reasons Full Throttle is so strong on the Defender is that white 4k. N-1s will not have the option to turn around with a free evade. Compared to Defenders, N-1s gain less from Full Throttle, but also rely on it more and can't keep it online as consistently.

The Handmaidens will be powerful, but their ability does allow for some counterplay. N-1s do not have Evade on their action bar, so Handmaidens rely on Full Throttle, which means they want to formation fly at speed, so disrupting the formation should be possible.

Padme's ability isn't quite as strong as you suggest. She doesn't prevent you from modding all your dice; she only prevents modding eyeball results beyond the first. Sucks when you roll a bunch of eyeballs, otherwise not a big deal. On most rolls she will lock out either 1 or 0 dice.

Padme combined with Handmaidens is what makes me nervous.   It all layers a little too well.

44 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

From what you said Padmé should actually make you happy since she is one of the only things somewhat countering Force. 

From what we've heard and seen, I believe that Anakin(7b)/Padmé/2xHandmaiden will fit, but won't leave much room for toys, especially Jukes or Torpedoes. Then it's important to remind ourselves of the actual statline - 2/2/3/2 - there's only so much tricks and Evades can do, with 2agi and 5hp these things will go down when focused. 2att, limited access to double mods and no points for Juke or Torps mean that their output won't be great against beefier lists (unlike TIE or RZ-2 swarms which too have 2att but their attacks are very reliable). 

Padme is nice against other Space Wizards, but I'm not playing Republic.  I'm more concerned with her effect on things primarily from a Vulture Swarm. 

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1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

I wouldn't be surprised at this - I think the V-19s were there to start Republic off before getting into the good stuff.  They get people used to the skirmish line tactics that seem to be coming into focus as the Republic identity solidifies.

No ships should be just filler until better ships come out.  That is a horrible way to design a game.

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12 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Padme combined with Handmaidens is what makes me nervous.   It all layers a little too well.

Padme is nice against other Space Wizards, but I'm not playing Republic.  I'm more concerned with her effect on things primarily from a Vulture Swarm. 

How often are you spending more than 1 calculate on a dice roll with Vultures.  I'd think a swarm of calculating ships will just laugh at Padme.

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30 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Padme combined with Handmaidens is what makes me nervous.   It all layers a little too well.

Padme is nice against other Space Wizards, but I'm not playing Republic.  I'm more concerned with her effect on things primarily from a Vulture Swarm. 

As a player of 8 Vulture lists, I am not that concerned. N1's 2att dice are pretty terrible in the attrition war against Vultures while these droids are premiere blockers.

It's not going to be easy game but it doesn't seem as bad for this exact list. I already split the swarm into two groups of four and here it will be very important so that Padmé and Handmaidens can only choose one group of Vultures for their abilities.

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29 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

No ships should be just filler until better ships come out.  That is a horrible way to design a game.

I agree - each ship has unique contributions, and should be used appropriately, but in most expanding games that I've experienced, there is some inevitable shift as players begin to find more effective ways of doing things that don't require the same tools.  This is probably a more accurate analogy than creating 'filler' ships, TBH.  Perhaps I should have been clearer on the meaning.

The above aside, the general opinion on V-19s as reflected by commentators on various threads in the forums suggests that the ships themselves have never really been that good.  Most people think of them, as far as I can tell, as underwhelming.  To me, that indicates that perhaps there was some element of 'filler' design that went into their construction.

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