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41 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

We've seen that there will be a FO bomber in season 2 of Resistance. Looks pretty cool, like a TIE/sa but with inverse-bent wings.

Nevertheless, I think my point is this:

With 7 factions, some things might be faction-oriented.  Not faction locked by the rules, but more faction driven by availability in releases.  And I don't see that as a problem that needs to be solved even with card packs.  If you have access to good torpedoes, the fact that Blah Blah Torps are only in Republic expacs is a non-issue.  If you really want to equip them, well then that's not a game problem, that's a personal desire and can be solved without FFG's intervention.

If FO never got a bomber, but you really wanted to bomb things, then you might be playing the wrong faction.

Just like in M:TG: If you want to counterspell stuff but you are not playing blue, that's not a defect in the game--that's a player's imperfect choice of the options available.

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6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Nevertheless, I think my point is this:

With 7 factions, some things might be faction-oriented.  Not faction locked by the rules, but more faction driven by availability in releases.  And I don't see that as a problem that needs to be solved even with card packs.  If you have access to good torpedoes, the fact that Blah Blah Torps are only in Republic expacs is a non-issue.  If you really want to equip them, well then that's not a game problem, that's a personal desire and can be solved without FFG's intervention.

If FO never got a bomber, but you really wanted to bomb things, then you might be playing the wrong faction.

Just like in M:TG: If you want to counterspell stuff but you are not playing blue, that's not a defect in the game--that's a player's imperfect choice of the options available.

Sure, but at least historically, the Imperial faction has been more defined by what it couldn't do rather than what it could do.  When you looked at upgrades that a faction could not use, the Empire blew everyone out of the water with what was unavailable to them.  ****, even our most iconic ship, the TIE Fighter, was not only available to other factions, but straight up superior in them.  I don't think it is too unreasonable to want to have some neat things that only your faction can do.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Nevertheless, I think my point is this:

With 7 factions, some things might be faction-oriented.  Not faction locked by the rules, but more faction driven by availability in releases.  And I don't see that as a problem that needs to be solved even with card packs.  If you have access to good torpedoes, the fact that Blah Blah Torps are only in Republic expacs is a non-issue.  If you really want to equip them, well then that's not a game problem, that's a personal desire and can be solved without FFG's intervention.

If FO never got a bomber, but you really wanted to bomb things, then you might be playing the wrong faction.

Just like in M:TG: If you want to counterspell stuff but you are not playing blue, that's not a defect in the game--that's a player's imperfect choice of the options available.

More to the point: The Devs have said that a major intent in 2.0 was to eliminate "Chase" cards like the 1.0 autothrusters pack that came with a free Starviper. They've said that they'll make all cards available to all factions, maybe not every wave, but at least as soon as possible.

If they intend to fulfill that promise we need card packs by Wave V. We're clearly not getting any new content in the rereleases and they're not giving Imps and Rebels any new ships (probably until other factions are caught up), so they'll have to have something out soon if they don't want to be called liars.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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16 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but at least historically, the Imperial faction has been more defined by what it couldn't do rather than what it could do.  When you looked at upgrades that a faction could not use, the Empire blew everyone out of the water with what was unavailable to them.

Well, as a devout Imperial, the only thing I have really lamented not having was shields.  And again, that's faction flavor, so if I don't like it, then I'm in the wrong faction.

Quote

****, even our most iconic ship, the TIE Fighter, was not only available to other factions, but straight up superior in them. 

Because of the pilots, not because of the chassis.

The TIE/ln is supposed to be disposable.  So it is.  It's primary feature is Swarm, and it has always been able to do that, at least off-and-on, in the meta.

Quote

I don't think it is too unreasonable to want to have some neat things that only your faction can do.

Well, this is actually more my point.  It's seems that everyone expects that card packs to make every card in the game an equal-opportunity thing.  And I'm saying that a certain type of missile that is not-faction-locked but only Imperial-expac-available should not be seen as a game flaw.

To make Imperials special, someday FFG might figure of a good way to get Command Structure into the game.  Coordinate is the right idea, but maybe something where crew upgrades on shuttles really help the fighters.  The Imperials need cards that function like Leia--but a lot more of them.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, this is actually more my point.  It's seems that everyone expects that card packs to make every card in the game an equal-opportunity thing.  And I'm saying that a certain type of missile that is not-faction-locked but only Imperial-expac-available should not be seen as a game flaw.

Strong disagree. It is a game flaw because it means you can't buy it on the primary market without buying cross-faction. Same as the Starviper in 1e for Autothrusters.

I believe in the secondary market and everything, but everyone knows it's much better value to get it already included in something you were buying anyway, and it's something that the developers have said more than once that they intended to fix in 2nd edition.

It's okay with me if one faction leads by a wave or two. That's just typical product rollout. People who are eager to have those toys now can buy cross-faction or on the secondary market. If it's longer than a couple of waves though, the devs have seriously screwed up.

And all of this is in addition to the fact that the Rebels have no new ships on the forseeable horizon, and Imps only have maybe the TIE/rb. There are no new ships in the movies, books, or comics, and the devs have stressed that we won't need to buy new models for content from existing ships. If they don't do card packs we won't even see an announcement for something new until Cassian comes out in a year or two. That's way too long to be playing with all the same toys and not even be able to buy something new.

I see card packs (and probably corresponding aces packs) as an inevitability, and likely to come soon.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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30 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

More to the point: The Devs have said that a major intent in 2.0 was to eliminate "Chase" cards like the 1.0 autothrusters pack that came with a free Starviper. They've said that they'll make all cards available to all factions, maybe not every wave, but at least as soon as possible.

If they intend to fulfill that promise we need card packs by Wave V. We're clearly not getting any new content in the rereleases and they're not giving Imps and Rebels any new ships (probably until other factions are caught up), so they'll have to have something out soon if they don't want to be called liars.

Agreed.  That's why in the moment card packs need to move content around.

But in the long run, I think there are best used as a way to introduce new content without a new model.  Even with the N1, we are already missing:

Image result for decipher swccg bravo 2Image result for decipher swccg arven wendikImage result for decipher swccg rya kirsh

 

5 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Strong disagree. It is a game flaw because it means you can't buy it on the primary market without buying cross-faction. Same as the Starviper in 1e for Autothrusters.

I 100% agree that there should not be chase cards.

However, I don't think that card packs need to used to give players of different factions all the same flavor of frosting.

If your faction has good torps, but a another faction has a slightly different one, I would consider that faction flavor and not required for universal dissemination in card packs.

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31 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I 100% agree that there should not be chase cards.

However, I don't think that card packs need to used to give players of different factions all the same flavor of frosting.

If your faction has good torps, but a another faction has a slightly different one, I would consider that faction flavor and not required for universal dissemination in card packs.

I feel like there are chase cards now though. If for no other reason than now we have a situation where all old factions are in effect prohibited from any newly developed content of any kind, because of how ffg has chosen to honor the “don’t need to rebuy models you have”.

 It’s not so much that everyone has similar but different cards. It’s that you flat out do not have new content without a new faction, period. All new content is placed with the new factions, without regard to the concept of who has what.

I agree with your premise; I reject that your premise is the world we are experiencing currently (now through wave 5 release). 

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2 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I feel like there are chase cards now though. If for no other reason than now we have a situation where all old factions are in effect prohibited from any newly developed content of any kind, because of how ffg has chosen to honor the “don’t need to rebuy models you have”.

 It’s not so much that everyone has similar but different cards. It’s that you flat out do not have new content without a new faction, period. All new content is placed with the new factions, without regard to the concept of who has what.

I agree with your premise; I reject that your premise is the world we are experiencing currently (now through wave 5 release). 

Another reason why going from three factions to seven was a bad idea.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If your faction has good torps, but a another faction has a slightly different one, I would consider that faction flavor and not required for universal dissemination in card packs.

If they're going to do that for faction flavor, they should be labeled "Republic or Separatist only". There's no reason for us not to use them if they're fair game. They have to make up their minds whether the TIE Bomber can use Diamond-Boron or not, or whether the Y-Wing is allowed to have Delayed Fuses, or whether Darth Vader is allowed to have Hate. If not, restrict it. If so, permit it and let us have it.

As is, it's just a mess.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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8 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Another reason why going from three factions to seven was a bad idea.

I’m not sure I agree. I just think what they should have been doing is have a card pack every other wave, consisting of the new generic upgrades from the wave. So the first one would have landed with wave 4 and have passive sensor, plasma torps etc. 

Wave 5-6 would have a set, etc.

every single wave probably doesn’t have enough content to justify it.

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1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’m not sure I agree. I just think what they should have been doing is have a card pack every other wave, consisting of the new generic upgrades from the wave. So the first one would have landed with wave 4 and have passive sensor, plasma torps etc. 

Wave 5-6 would have a set, etc.

every single wave probably doesn’t have enough content to justify it.

The problem is just the lack of new content for the non-prequel factions.  We were told that you can now be a single-faction player because upgrades will not be faction locked.  Great, no more Starviper issues!  Now imagine telling that to a First Order only player with a straight face. 

As primarily an Imperial player there isn't a whole lot of more plastic left on my wishlist, but what I really want is new content for my existing plastic.  I would love to get cardboard only packs for all of my existing ships.  Where is my Maarek Stele card pack?  Where is my Interceptor card pack?  Where is my Black Squadron card pack?  Give me more pilots and more upgrades!  Not only have they failed to do this, but all of the usable new content that they have produced is faction locked, with no signs of getting any imperial release in the near future.

If FFG wants to abandon the old factions to churn out prequel stuff then they've lost me as an xwing customer.  I give negative ****s about the prequels, and I'm still just sitting here waiting for rereleased 1.0 content to be brought back, let alone fresh new content.

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Whilst you lot lament on stuff, Rebels are getting ship rereleases that don't fix anything. The new B-Wing model looks great but still the same limited pilots. Give me a new beam weapon or two in card packs to help, even if we don't get any more pilots. The same will go for the AWs no doubt.

If there are no new pilots and therefore nothing new for the Rebels, in FFG Forum speak, is the faction now dead?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I feel like there are chase cards now though. If for no other reason than now we have a situation where all old factions are in effect prohibited from any newly developed content of any kind, because of how ffg has chosen to honor the “don’t need to rebuy models you have”.

 It’s not so much that everyone has similar but different cards. It’s that you flat out do not have new content without a new faction, period. All new content is placed with the new factions, without regard to the concept of who has what.

I agree with your premise; I reject that your premise is the world we are experiencing currently (now through wave 5 release). 

This is what I'm trying to say.  Perhaps you've said it better.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

If they're going to do that for faction flavor, they should be labeled "Republic or Separatist only". There's no reason for us not to use them if they're fair game. They have to make up their minds whether the TIE Bomber can use Diamond-Boron or not, or whether the Y-Wing is allowed to have Delayed Fuses, or whether Darth Vader is allowed to have Hate. If not, restrict it. If so, permit it and let us have it.

As is, it's just a mess.

Erm, no.

Faction-locked cards are faction locked for game play balance and rules interactions.

If you don't have access to a Republic expac upgrade that is not hampering the meta, it's no different that not having a repaint or not having access to X-Wings because you don't play Rebels or Resistance.

Lastly, you can always proxy and play casual.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Another reason why going from three factions to seven was a bad idea.

100% disagree.  All the new factions are exciting lots of people, and a point of re-entry for folks like myself that didn't want to convert from 1.0 wholesale.

50 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The problem is just the lack of new content for the non-prequel factions. 

100% agree.

But right now is just the growing pains; yes, the OT factions are getting stale from no new releases, and the ST factions are hampered by lack of source material.  In a couple of years, this will all even out.

I would prefer to see card packs grow these factions with new material, not just lazily move everything around.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Erm, no.

Faction-locked cards are faction locked for game play balance and rules interactions.

If you don't have access to a Republic expac upgrade that is not hampering the meta, it's no different that not having a repaint or not having access to X-Wings because you don't play Rebels or Resistance.

Lastly, you can always proxy and play casual.

Completely don't follow.

If I only play Rebels, am I allowed to use spare parts canisters? Yes!

If I only buy Rebels, am I able to use spare parts canisters? No!

Why not?

Sure, it's not doing anything significant in the meta, but I don't care about that anyway as I mainly play casually. I think it would be fun to drop spare parts from Wedge.

But I'm not buying into the prequel factions.

Somehow making a case that Spare Parts Canisters are part of the Republic's identity doesn't make sense. If it were supposed to be a Republic card, it would say "Republic" on it. I'm just saying they should be consistent: Can Rebels use it or can't they?

It seems to me like you're saying it's just fine and not a problem that they can use it but they also can't, and I just have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I don't have access to a good way of proxying cards, but regardless I don't particularly like to do that. I prefer to play with genuine product and I enjoy the art and print quality of the real cards.

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9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Completely don't follow.

If I only play Rebels, am I allowed to use spare parts canisters? Yes!

If I only buy Rebels, am I able to use spare parts canisters? No!

Why not?

Sure, it's not doing anything significant in the meta, but I don't care about that anyway as I mainly play casually. I think it would be fun to drop spare parts from Wedge.

But I'm not buying into the prequel factions.

Somehow making a case that Spare Parts Canisters are part of the Republic's identity doesn't make sense. If it were supposed to be a Republic card, it would say "Republic" on it. I'm just saying they should be consistent: Can Rebels use it or can't they?

It seems to me like you're saying it's just fine and not a problem that they can use it but they also can't, and I just have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I don't have access to a good way of proxying cards, but regardless I don't particularly like to do that. I prefer to play with genuine product and I enjoy the art and print quality of the real cards.

No, you pretty much get what I'm saying.  You just don't like the idea (and fair enough).

As for why not, I guess the only real reason would be is the I would prefer new material in card packs over simply moving cards around factions.*

*Down the road, when we are not stuck in All Prequel All The Time mode.

Quote

It seems to me like you're saying it's just fine and not a problem that they can use it but they also can't, and I just have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I guess I look at it this way:  If Spare Parts Canisters were to be limited to Republic expacs, would become a common feature of Republic lists and not for other factions.  This makes it a flavor feature for the Republic faction without actually banning it from other factions, if you happened to have the card second-hand or purchase across factions.

I guess I don't consider it "unfair" to have cards that I could use but don't need not in "my faction."  But I also don't collect or play the game that way.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I guess I don't consider it "unfair" to have cards that I could use but don't need not in "my faction."  But I also don't collect or play the game that way.

Okay yeah it makes sense now. But I do disagree :)

Definitely agree that I want more stuff for the older factions though. SERIOUSLY.

Just not ambitious enough to think that a significant number of upgrades (other than maybe configs/titles, and crew/gunners/astromechs) would be included in that. I'm guessing just pilots :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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15 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The problem is just the lack of new content for the non-prequel factions.  We were told that you can now be a single-faction player because upgrades will not be faction locked.  Great, no more Starviper issues!  Now imagine telling that to a First Order only player with a straight face. 

I am starting to believe that what ffg meant was that you could pick a faction at conversion kit release. Not long term. 

Of course, that makes the statement dishonest. But I didn’t come here to defend them merely to understand what happened.

They got too hung up on “you don’t need to rebuy models to play this game” promise they failed to deliver on the single-faction-option promise.

I’m sure at some point a card pack will emerge. I’m just not sure if it will be out in time to matter or not.

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I just wanted to point out that the only generic upgrade from 2.0 launch that was really an issue in its lack of availability was Afterburners (excluding Barrage bc while they do have one potential carrier, Rebels just don’t need it right now), and not only have the Prequels both gotten the card in multiples, Wave 4 has it in several expacs (including at least the B-Wing I believe.)

While it’s not what most of you wanted, they’re releasing all of the generic cards available to all of the factions, within a few waves. Their choice to only include conversion kit upgrades in rerelease expacs, while confusing to some, avoids trying to sell people more of the same ship just for cards, and in the long run seems wise.

The only gaping hole now is Moldy Crow for Scum players, IMO.

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1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

I just wanted to point out that the only generic upgrade from 2.0 launch that was really an issue in its lack of availability was Afterburners (excluding Barrage bc while they do have one potential carrier, Rebels just don’t need it right now), and not only have the Prequels both gotten the card in multiples, Wave 4 has it in several expacs (including at least the B-Wing I believe.)

While it’s not what most of you wanted, they’re releasing all of the generic cards available to all of the factions, within a few waves. Their choice to only include conversion kit upgrades in rerelease expacs, while confusing to some, avoids trying to sell people more of the same ship just for cards, and in the long run seems wise.

The only gaping hole now is Moldy Crow for Scum players, IMO.

For now...

(I would make the case that half of the factions may want spare parts canister from wave 3, but Resistance is about to get it so only strictly rebel is hosed now).

That is about to change in wave 4 and 5, both of which include new content exclusively to the prequel factions (and to a lesser extent the autoblaster is Resistance only at that point). No sign of when those will be available.

Additionally, afterburners was a card made available to all at the beginning, albeit in very limited quantity. It was not a net new design that was added to the game.

There better be a card pack in wave 6 for all the missed out on stuff: plasma torps, autoblaster, passive sensors, snap shot etc. The fact they actually announced one for legion give me a little hope. Then again, the legion one isn’t stuff you can only get by buying both sides - it’s stuff that can be found in either side already.

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Posted (edited)

But you haven’t waited at all. You can’t say it’s never coming for your faction after two wave announcements (have we seen a spread for the Ghost yet? The Sheathipede is one of the few Rebel ships that has a mech slot and hasn’t been released in 2.0 yet).

And I think your distinction of “new toys” is a moot point. Afterburners was, as much as everything else, a “new toy.” And it was a fun upgrade that came in extremely limited quantities.

I’m not saying it doesn’t suck a little for certain faction-bound players, but I don’t see any way in which FFG isn’t keeping their word on spreading the love more efficiently when it comes to generic upgrades.

Edited by SpiderMana

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11 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

But you haven’t waited at all. You can’t say it’s never coming for your faction after two wave announcements (have we seen a spread for the Ghost yet? The Sheathipede is one of the few Rebel ships that has a mech slot and hasn’t been released in 2.0 yet).

And I think your distinction of “new toys” is a moot point. Afterburners was, as much as everything else, a “new toy.” And it was a fun upgrade that came in extremely limited quantities.

We already know that the future wave content for older factions does not have anything new in it, because the articles explicitly state that they only contain content from the conversion kits.

From the announcements, we know that, at minimum, there will be no access except out of faction until December.

You can disagree on the afterburner example if you want, but it was something available to everyone from day 1. That makes it different from all the other examples, which are flat out not available without going into prequels.

Also, we can logically conclude that this practice of only conversion kit in rereleases will be a thing based on a pattern - for 5 waves (3 known and 2 forthcoming), we know that there will be zero new content for those faction locked players. That many waves, I think it’s safer to see the pattern than day “maybe next one will be different”

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2019 at 10:54 PM, ScummyRebel said:

I am starting to believe that what ffg meant was that you could pick a faction at conversion kit release. Not long term. 

Of course, that makes the statement dishonest. But I didn’t come here to defend them merely to understand what happened.

They got too hung up on “you don’t need to rebuy models to play this game” promise they failed to deliver on the single-faction-option promise.

I’m sure at some point a card pack will emerge. I’m just not sure if it will be out in time to matter or not.

yeah im also thinking any card packs are going to arrive way after i need them.

ME: excited to see whats in the first scum card pack...

FFG: here is that Moldy Crow title all you scum players have been crying for

ME: so you mean I didnt really need to buy that Rebel Conversion Kit after all?

Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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1 hour ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

yeah im also thinking any card packs are going to arrive way after i need them.

ME: excited to see whats in the first scum card pack...

FFG: here is that Moldy Crow title all you scum players have been crying for

ME: so you mean I didnt really need to buy that Rebel Conversion Kit after all?

Bingo.

One thing to call out as a legion player, the card pack for Legion that is coming this year has a whopping 3 cards (I think, I know it’s an extreme minority) that are new. They’re almost certainly cards available in the big Clone Wars core set. The rest are things both existing factions have had access to. In effect, it’s almost there more for the newcomers just buying Clone Wars than anything else.

This is sort of matched in xwing with the squadron packs for the Clone Wars.

I wonder if we have to wait for unknown factions 8-9 to get card packs.... 

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IIRC; the Devs said there would be a way for old players to get new cards without buying old ships again. Unless I've missed something (which is entirely possible) they have never stipulated how. So, new ship for a faction with the cards not previously available? Fits the bill and not a lie ;) Just saying :)

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