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BoskiChe

Range measurements on abilities that are not Actions

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There are many cards that have actions working within range limit. In such case it is easy, You declare action, measure range if it is ok (and other requirements are met) it goes off, if not actions fails and You cannot perform other one this turn (unless otherwise specified). What happends with abilities that have range restictions but are not actions? ex:

â¢Kraken

Am I allowed to measure range 3 and then specify which tokens stay, or I need to first specify tokens and the measure if they are eliglible for Kraken's ability? Thouse outside of range are not affected and I am not allowed to select other potential targets?

 

This is of course an example to illustrate the proccess itself.

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"you may choose up to three friendly ships at range 0-3" means you can measure and choose, you don't have to pick ships before measuring.

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Abilities that are based off a trigger typically cant 'fail' and measuring for range on them happens at the time of the trigger. For Kracken specifically, its letting you choose targets AT a specific range, so the range would be measured first, then you'd choose the 3 ships. Even then, i cant see someone making a gigantic deal how of how you trigger Kraken's ability. Now, if an ability can trigger Other abilities, then it becomes more important, depending on what the ability is. 

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I agree with the others that this was meant to allow you to measure range to all friendly ships first. I wish they had worded this card such as "During the End Phase, you may measure range to each friendly ship. If you do, you must choose up to 3 friendly ships at range 0-3. Each of these ships does not remove 1 calculate token". In my mind this accomplishes 2 things:

  1. It clarifies who you can measure range to BEFORE deciding after effects.
  2. It clarifies that if you measure range then you MUST follow through on the ability.

In this specific case, #2 doesn't matter because the MUST applies to choosing UP TO 3 friendly ships and 0 is a valid value so the MUST is an empty requirement. However, if this were the standard wording then it would make certain that other similar abilities would not provide a means for free information without some level of risk. As an example, this might matter for snap shot depending on whether it's worded the same as in 1.0. In 1.0 I used to measure range from my snap shot ships to enemy ships every time they moved because there was no requirement that I perform the attack if they were actually in range 1.

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What about the infamous Vader ruling that was made at a tournament a while back?  If you do elect to measure range/arc to ships, and the only available targets (in arc at range 0-2) are friendly ships, are you still obligated to spend the force and target a friendly ship with the "lose a green or take damage" effect?

Card_Upgrade_112.png

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Rulings at tournaments are irrelevant to the rules of the game.

'You may choose one ship in your firing arc at range blah' means, to me at least, check to see which ships are in your arc, then you may choose one.  Because you don't know what you're choosing between unless you... know what you're choosing between.

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Rulings at tournaments are irrelevant to the rules of the game.

In general, yes... but they do set precedents, as we are still lacking an official explanation of how the effect works.  The question remains, do you elect to "Vader" before you check ranges, and then live with whatever consequences the ruler says... or do you choose whether or not you "Vader" after you've looked at who the relevant targets could be?  For what it's worth, I think your way makes more sense, but I can see the argument for the other interpretation.

And since @OfficialRules is so slow to address game questions, we're left with "general consensus" (which rarely exists) and "common sense" (which is far from common) to answer our queries.

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You elect to do it after you check ranges, because that is what the card says to do.  If you may choose a ship in range, which is what it says to do, how do you know what your choices are between, without measuring first.


And no, they don't set precedents for what the eventual official rulings will be.

They don't even set precedents for what the ruling at the next tournament will be, unless it's with the same judge.

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It works just like lock or coordinate, you measure first and then choose an eligible object. Only fails if there isn’t anything in range.

The  Vader ruling is a whole nother can of worms about rules lawering and creating an environment of gotcha rules and feels bad mans and power level discrimination etc.

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On 5/17/2019 at 6:28 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

For what it's worth, I think your way makes more sense, but I can see the argument for the other interpretation.

I kinda dont just because there is precedent for it. The way i see it (*personal view disclaimer*), if FFG wanted to lock you into picking a ship, they would have (and have done so in the past) worded it differently. For instance, R4-P

latest?cb=20190217054714

 

So, if they wanted to lock Vader into spending the charge, then forcing to him to choose a ship, he could be worded..

At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may spend 1 Icon force. If you do, choose 1 ship in your firing arc at range 0-2. That ship suffers 1 Icon damage hit damage unless it chooses to remove 1 green token.

^ That wording forces you to decide to use his ability before measuring. Which is the same type of wording as R4-P. So, given that, it is my belief that with Vader, you can check ships first, then decide to spend the force or not. I think its less fun that way, but that's how I *personally* interpret his wording.

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