Balance

[LunarSol 1,369]

Didn’t Rebels take the top 3 at adepticon?

[crx3800 268]

2 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

Didn’t Rebels take the top 3 at adepticon?

Detractors will say this was before certain units were added to the game. But I agree, the proof is in the pudding that the balance is there. I'm sure there won't be much variance in sides at Gencon. 

[thepopemobile100 977]

1 minute ago, LunarSol said:

Didn’t Rebels take the top 3 at adepticon?

They did indeed with the caveat that one player might have been cheating. In any case, I expect rebels to perform well at Worlds.

[TalkPolite 391]

13 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

They did indeed with the caveat that one player might have been cheating. In any case, I expect rebels to perform well at Worlds.

Davis is playing Rebels, so we’re all doomed anyway

[Zeph01 55]

Ive been playing as rebels since launch, my buddy plays imps and we have tried so many lists and played every objective.  I honestly am a terrible rebel player, i love taking the fight to the imperials and praying for good luck on dice rolls haha

but from what ive seen over the course of the year, imperials are definitely a little easier to play and way more forgiving on mistakes.  hence why i finally decided to just invest in imperials.  I am a very brash player with an aggressive play style and it honestly just bites me back when I play rebels and I never learn haha.

I have played in numerous games where it went down to the wire and we had to factor in points.  To me, that shows that there is some state of balance and whether you factor in activations, upgrades etc.  You definitely need a different train of thought and play style to be an effective rebel player.  I hope for the future, rebels get more tools to get rid of suppression, Imps seem to be getting plenty of ways to add suppression (bossk, DT's, annihilation looms, shoretrooper mortars)

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

24 minutes ago, Zeph01 said:

I have played in numerous games where it went down to the wire and we had to factor in points.  To me, that shows that there is some state of balance and whether you factor in activations, upgrades etc.  You definitely need a different train of thought and play style to be an effective rebel player.  I hope for the future, rebels get more tools to get rid of suppression, Imps seem to be getting plenty of ways to add suppression (bossk, DT's, annihilation looms, shoretrooper mortars)

Sabine seems to support Rebels getting more ways of dealing with suppression, between the command card that gives her Inspire 1, and the command card that lets her place a token that allows Rebel units to roll an additional die when rallying. 

[Djaskim609 431]

I'm an imp player and the game seems balanced to me. We have a roughly even number of rebel and imperial players in my group, and the rebels do fine. The imps being overpowered is laughable. DLT's? Z-6's, Z-6's, Z-6's. The synergy and cards of the rebel leaders is great. For every weakness of both factions, there are strengths. 

I realize the strong temptation to claim unbalance--I feel it myself playing against rebels, lol. Different play styles? Sure. Does this require a points change? Nope. Not at all. If the imps were so powerful, I'd win more games. 

[Derrault 1,091]

5 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

They did indeed with the caveat that one player might have been cheating. In any case, I expect rebels to perform well at Worlds.

Was cheating.

You could question the intention (cheating on purpose), but not the outcome (definitely cheated). 

[thepopemobile100 977]

33 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Was cheating.

You could question the intention (cheating on purpose), but not the outcome (definitely cheated). 

Was it confirmed?

I haven't been following the case beyond that someone might have been cheating at a tournament, and I frankly don't care so long as it's been dealt with.

[Derrault 1,091]

6 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Was it confirmed?

I haven't been following the case beyond that someone might have been cheating at a tournament, and I frankly don't care so long as it's been dealt with.

Yes, some of the players games were cast, and it’s done repeatedly. 

[Jedhead 855]

Things actually seem to be pretty well-balanced to me overall.

The only place where I think Rebels may under-perform significantly is in the Dark Trooper to Pathfinder comparison, but I haven't seen them on the table enough to be sure. Pathfinders are just not that impressive aside from infiltrate (which is amazing) whereas DTs are defensively solid units that also function as beat-sticks thanks to their amazing weapon upgrade.

Also, that is not a direct comparison. Though they were released at the same time, the units fill pretty different roles. It just seems from my initial experience that Death Troopers are pretty much better at almost everything, and their insane ability to control the board and the pace of the match through superior range and firepower is unequaled by almost any other unit.

Time to run more melee up in their grill, I suppose, or send triple flamer-armed death chickens of doom and destruction after them...

[Staelwulf 194]

Tbh all your imperial red defense dice mean nothing if you're fighting an inflation of Pierce weapons. Except for Pathfinders, Rebels persistently got new Pierce weapons.

The fact that so many ppl state that Sniper Strike Teams buffed Imperials is ridiculous. Their purpose is to kill units with good defense dice (+cheap activation) aka Imperials!

Imo this is a point too many forget when they complain about better defense dice on imperial units.

[Derrault 1,091]

30 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

Tbh all your imperial red defense dice mean nothing if you're fighting an inflation of Pierce weapons. Except for Pathfinders, Rebels persistently got new Pierce weapons.

The fact that so many ppl state that Sniper Strike Teams buffed Imperials is ridiculous. Their purpose is to kill units with good defense dice (+cheap activation) aka Imperials!

Imo this is a point too many forget when they complain about better defense dice on imperial units.

Not to mention, it’s just one (STs, Vader, Veers) or two faces (DTs, Boba, Emp) more than a Rebel trooper.

Not that big a difference. 

[DarkTrooperZero 304]

As a player of both factions overall they are balanced. Each has its strengths  and weaknesses.

However I have a feeling with Bossks imminent release, the tank and people now taking medic supported death  troopers we may see the scales tilit to favour Imperials. Luke can only do so much in the face of so much range 4 suppression.

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

Making one side more powerful at attack and the other at defense is inherently unbalanced. There is no victory in defense.

I think the rebel heroes have more than enough "superpowers" to make up for it though. I find that a distasteful approach to wargames so I'm disappointed that's how Legion shook out, but it is what it is.

Edited May 16, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

5 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Making one side more powerful at attack and the other at defense is inherently unbalanced. There is no victory in defense.

I think the rebel heroes have more than enough "superpowers" to make up for it though. I find that a distasteful approach to wargames so I'm disappointed that's how Legion shook out, but it is what it is.

This right here makes me question how much effort I want to put into building a Rebel force and just go for empire and republic, with a dash of Rebels for thematic game days instead of just gaming.

[Alpha17 2,853]

 

 

1

12 hours ago, Jedhead said:

The only place where I think Rebels may under-perform significantly is in the Dark Trooper to Pathfinder comparison, but I haven't seen them on the table enough to be sure. Pathfinders are just not that impressive aside from infiltrate (which is amazing) whereas DTs are defensively solid units that also function as beat-sticks thanks to their amazing weapon upgrade.

I've actually seen Pathfinders one-shot Death Troopers on more than one occasion.  Granted, those are likely flukes and difficult to replicate against a good player, but the capacity is there.  As you said though, they're really there to be used for different purposes. 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I think the rebel heroes have more than enough "superpowers" to make up for it though. I find that a distasteful approach to wargames so I'm disappointed that's how Legion shook out, but it is what it is.

I've won a few games using Rebels with the generic commander, so it's not strictly necessary.  That said, using the heroes is certainly what Rebel list building is geared towards. 

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

12 hours ago, Staelwulf said:

Tbh all your imperial red defense dice mean nothing if you're fighting an inflation of Pierce weapons. Except for Pathfinders, Rebels persistently got new Pierce weapons.

I guess I'm a little confused by this. Are the rebels getting more than the imperials?

As far as I can tell they're pretty similar:

Luke/Vader
Han/Palpatine
Leia/Veers
Jyn/Krennic

Fleet troopers can get pierce 1 but snow troopers can get blast and spray 

Scouts/commandos 

Boba/chewie
Bossk/Sabine




 

[crx3800 268]

29 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I guess I'm a little confused by this. Are the rebels getting more than the imperials?

As far as I can tell they're pretty similar:

Luke/Vader
Han/Palpatine
Leia/Veers
Jyn/Krennic

Fleet troopers can get pierce 1 but snow troopers can get blast and spray 

Scouts/commandos 

Boba/chewie
Bossk/Sabine




 

It's more about the capability to put more of those rebels in an effective list than you can those imperials. You can run Luke and Han pretty easily together. It's a different thing to put Vader and Palp together. 

Not saying it's impossible, but it's not cost efficient. 

[crx3800 268]

In this game, there can be victory in defense. Get an objective. Either run with it (if you can) or hunker down near it (if you have to stay near) and enjoy ignoring your first three hits (heavy cover and a dodge). 

 

Yes, this requires you to live long enough to claim the objective first, but I haven't seen that be much of an issue. 

[Alpha17 2,853]

RE: Pierce

Yeah, I ran into two pierce heavy lists this weekend, one with Han, Leia, and Chewie, and one with Han, Luke, and Chewie.  Can't say I've ever seen an Imp player try to take Palp, Vader, and Boba or Palp, Veers, and Boba.

[thepopemobile100 977]

20 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

RE: Pierce

Yeah, I ran into two pierce heavy lists this weekend, one with Han, Leia, and Chewie, and one with Han, Luke, and Chewie.  Can't say I've ever seen an Imp player try to take Palp, Vader, and Boba or Palp, Veers, and Boba.

I've actually seen a Palp, Vader, and Boba list once. It was difficult to focus one target down as they're all threats. I lost to it the first time I played against it.

[Thalandar 69]

On 5/15/2019 at 3:33 AM, RaevenKS said:

Did you take the 1/4 covers on the table, and not with a 40k "way of building table" in your assumption ?

No because IMO, a lot of the "tournaments table" are completely unbalance and indeed favorise the Empire.

Enlighten me, what is the 40k way of building a table?

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

2 hours ago, crx3800 said:

In this game, there can be victory in defense. Get an objective. Either run with it (if you can) or hunker down near it (if you have to stay near) and enjoy ignoring your first three hits (heavy cover and a dodge).

When I can generate 6-7 hits with an imperial unit that’s not so bad... 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

This right here makes me question how much effort I want to put into building a Rebel force and just go for empire and republic, with a dash of Rebels for thematic game days instead of just gaming.

If I were you, based on your past posts, I'd paint 2 core set of rebels and then add only whatever rebels you simply must own from a modelling perspective. That's the most economical option. It gives you a loaner army, and four Z-6's will be able to hold their own in friendly games more or less indefinitely.