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So bombardment drone can launch a device instead of dropping it, does this not directly contradict the ruling given for deathfire? The reasoning for him not being able to launch a device upon death was because all current devices can only be dropped, this just seems like mixed signals, I always thought the point of a cards special rules was to "break" the rules ie: the golden rule.

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Posted (edited)

I would argue that it does not contradict the Deathfire ruling. Deathfire's ability does not specify that it allows you to launch a device that is usually dropped. If we were to write his ability out in long-form, it would read:

After you are reduced to zero hull, before the ship is removed from the board, you may perform an attack and one of the following;

- Launch one device which specifies it can be launched on it's upgrade card

- Drop one device which specifies it can be dropped on it's upgrade card.

This would take up too much space, so we get the shortened form.

Bombardment Drone skips merrily past all this, due to its ability which clearly details that it can launch things which are usually dropped.

(And what Svelok says is correct! And much quicker to type!)

Edited by AceDogbert

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1 hour ago, svelok said:

bombardment drone says "instead", it's a replacement effect

Agreed.  I never saw Deathfire as someone who could launch drop devices, because his text was as close as they had to a generic term for putting a device into the play area.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, svelok said:

bombardment drone says "instead", it's a replacement effect

This is the case. Deathfire's wording for launching is just future proofing for devices that can naturally launch, or some other upgrade he maybe able to take later that gives him the ability to launch (like a gunner or something). The probe droids are a good example of a device that can naturally be launched. 

latest?cb=20190225224802

 

 

Edited by Lyianx
a word

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33 minutes ago, meffo said:

@Lyianx - you mean deathfires wording is just future proofing right? not bombardment drones? :)

Before even reading your comment, i re-read mine and saw that. :P fixed. 

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21 hours ago, svelok said:

bombardment drone says "instead", it's a replacement effect

This.

"Deathfire" gives you an extra chance to deploy a device by any means you can legally do so. What it doesn't do is add extra ways to deploy them; if the device is 'drop with a straight 1" then that's what you're stuck with*

Bombardment Drones give you an extra way to deploy a device when you deploy it ('mirror-imaging' a drop into a launch with the same template). What they don't do is give you an extra opportunity to deploy them; if they die before they release their payload, it goes down with them.

 

* Give or take NIMBLE BOMBER and Skilled Bombardier.

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The official FFG ruling I've read stated that you cannot launch devices that cannot normally be launched.  Can someone please give me an example of a device that can be normally launched besides the Separatist only probes?  Trajectory Simulator says "if" you would drop or launch a device you may launch with a 5 straight.  What device prior to Probe Droids would qualify to be launched? 

There is also a section in the rules reference regarding dropping and launching which ultimately states you use the device's template in your front guides instead of rear.

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52 minutes ago, Cutlery said:

The official FFG ruling I've read stated that you cannot launch devices that cannot normally be launched.  Can someone please give me an example of a device that can be normally launched besides the Separatist only probes?  Trajectory Simulator says "if" you would drop or launch a device you may launch with a 5 straight.  What device prior to Probe Droids would qualify to be launched? 

There is also a section in the rules reference regarding dropping and launching which ultimately states you use the device's template in your front guides instead of rear.

Probe droids were the first device that could be launched without an upgrade or ability that worked instead of the devices normal drop or launch mechanic.

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There is a valid grammatical argument for launching devices whose upgrade cards do not say launch.  The following quotes will note additional rules and reasonable applications and definitions.  Please note the highlighted sections of Device, Bomb, and Mine that state that both types of devices may be launched or dropped and a specific phase it must be done in.  The pilot ability of Deathfire alters the phase and timing that a device could be launched or dropped and gives a dropped device a launch option while Finch Dallow (whom also changes the timing) specifies only when he may drop a bomb.  When a device is specified to launch or drop you follow the Device Reference on placement of the template associated with a device, which is normally a 1 straight with the current exception being DRK-1 Probe Droids which is a 3 straight.  The TIE Bomber's Nimble Bomber ability alters the 1 straight into a 1 bank if you so choose or a 2 straight or bank if a Skilled Bombardier is equipped.

Under these guidelines and rules alterations based on upgrade cards and ship abilities the following are legal moves for Deathfire's pilot ability:  Launch a Mine or Bomb using 1 Straight.  Drop a Mine or Bomb using 1 Straight or 1 Bank.  Drop a Mine or Bomb using 2 Straight or Bank if Skilled Bombardier is equipped. 

Quote

DEVICE (󲁖) Each 󲁖 (device) upgrade card allows a ship to drop or launch a specific type of device and provides additional rules for how that device behaves.

To drop a device, follow the steps below: 1. Take the template indicated on the upgrade card. 2. Set the template between the ship’s rear guides. 3. Place the device indicated on the upgrade card into the play area and slide the guides of the device into the opposite end of the template. Then remove the template.

To launch a device, follow the steps below: 1. Take the template indicated on the upgrade card. 2. Set the template between the ship’s front guides. 3. Place the device indicated on the upgrade card into the play area and slide the guides of the device into the opposite end of the template. Then remove the template. 

Quote

BOMB A bomb is a type of device that is placed in the play area through a card effect from a 󲁖 upgrade card. The upgrade card that corresponds to the bomb has the “Bomb” trait at the top of its card text. Bombs can be dropped or launched during the System Phase and detonate at the end of the Activation Phase

Quote

MINE A mine is a type of device that is placed in the play area through a card effect from a 󲁖 upgrade card. The upgrade card that corresponds to the mine has the “Mine” trait at the top of its card text. Mines can be dropped or launched during the System Phase and typically detonate after they are moved through or overlapped by a ship.

 

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1 hour ago, Cutlery said:

The pilot ability of Deathfire alters the phase and timing that a device could be launched or dropped

Accurate.

Quote

and gives a dropped device a launch option

No. In fact, this is precisely what FFG says Deathfire's ability does not do.

It gives a dropped device an opportunity to be dropped, and a launched device a launch an opportunity to be launched.

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Exactly so.

The key thing is this:

7 hours ago, Cutlery said:

When a device is specified to launch or drop you follow the Device Reference on placement of the template associated with a device, which is normally a 1 straight with the current exception being DRK-1 Probe Droids which is a 3 straight

Those devices specify 'launch with a 3 straight' or 'drop with a 1 straight'; you can't just cherry-pick the template length and ignore the direction.

If you want to change any part of that instruction, you need to replace it with a new, complete valid instruction - trajectory simulator is specifically 'launch with a 5 straight' (replacing both), bombardment drone is 'launch with the same template you would have dropped'. Deathfire gives you the opportunity to launch, but unless you have a valid template listed somewhere on the device or another upgrade to launch with it you can't use it.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Statistically, nobody uses him anyway :P

As anyone who's seen me attempt to roll red dice at low agility targets will attest, I do not conform to conventional x-wing statistics. :ph34r:

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

As anyone who's seen me attempt to roll red dice at low agility targets will attest, I do not conform to conventional x-wing statistics. :ph34r:

Stealing this as it is painfully accurate for myself as well...

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