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toffolone

Entourage and commanding presence

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Probably it has already been asked before. Can entourage range limit be bypased by using commanding presence? (or for Emperor using batle meditation) 

I mean mean will Krennic be able to issue the free order to Death Troopers at range 4? Or may the Emperor issue orders to Royal guards (or any other unit since he is using Battle meditation) at any distance?

I seem to remember seeing a similar question on this forum, but In any case I don't remember the answer.

 thanks

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Posted (edited)

As far as I can tell, yes examples you provide are possible.

Page 33 Entourage:

Game effects that trigger when a unit is issued an order, such as those on command cards, trigger when a unit is issued an order by the entourage keyword.
• When issuing an order via the entourage keyword, the order must be issued to a unit that has the name specified by the entourage keyword, however other game effects that trigger when a unit is issued an order may cause the order to be issued to a different unit instead.

 Commanding Presence both trigger "When issuing orders" and as quoted above, Entourage can trigger game effects that happen when issuing orders. 

EDIT: the text of Battle Meditation has been errata'd to prevent being used with Entourage. The new text is on page 65 of the RRG and reads as follows: 

"While you are issuing orders using a command card, you may issue 1 of those orders to any friendly unit on the battlefeld, instead of a unit indicated on the command card."

 

Edited by Caimheul1313

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6 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

I know 😉. I was referring to OP's question

But I'm telling you where in the reference guide it has a reason why it shouldn't work.

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27 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

I know 😉. I was referring to OP's question

Do you mean Commanding Presence or Battle Meditation? 

I agree about Commanding Presence, but Battle Meditation has specifically been errata'd in the lated RRG to have new text restricting it only to orders that are issued as the result of a Command Card, as I quoted above. 

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Posted (edited)

Oh my bad I didn't read the meditation part in the brackets of OP's question. I thought he only asks about entourage with presence.

So I agree with you. With presence yes and with Meditation no.

Edited by Staelwulf

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Sorry, I'm confused. Are you saying that if Krennic has Commanding Presence he can issue his free entourage order to Death Troopers at range 4? Doesn't the card state that they have to be range 1-2?

 

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Entourage is not described on Krennic's card. 

It is a general rule that allows commander to issue an order to a specific unit at range 1 or 2.

Commanding Presence says that "when issuing orders you can issue orders at range 4"

Therefore, the range limit imposed by Entourage rule is altered by the Commanding PResence from "1 or 2" to "up to 4".

As much as I read the rules, I cannot find a reason why this should not work. But that's exactly why I asked. 

 

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3 hours ago, SkepticGuy said:

OK, but the people on the Legion Discord disagree. They say CP does not increase entourage (or the courage bubble)??

 

CP text: "When issuing orders, you may issue orders at range 4."

Entourage rules:

"Each Command Phase, during the Issue Orders step, a unit with the entourage keyword may issue an order to a friendly unit at range 1–2 that has the name specified by the entourage keyword.

• Orders issued with the entourage keyword are considered to be issued by the unit that has the entourage keyword."

Yes CP works with entourage. It also works with Coordinate if that interaction ever comes up.

as far as the courage bubble:

"If a unit is at range 1–3 of a friendly commander, it may use that commander’s courage value instead of its own when checking if it is panicked."

CP has no interaction with courage or suppression.

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4 hours ago, SkepticGuy said:

OK, but the people on the Legion Discord disagree. They say CP does not increase entourage (or the courage bubble)??

 

Just because they didn't think about that. I thought about that. And there is a huge probability that this will be addressed in a future rules reference in order to avoid the interaction between CP and Ent.

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On 5/29/2019 at 4:14 AM, toffolone said:

Therefore, the range limit imposed by Entourage rule is altered by the Commanding PResence from "1 or 2" to "up to 4".

Wait...but it's not up to  4 since commanding presence says that "when issuing orders, you can issue orders at range 4." So then there's a little gap in there at range 3 where entourage doesn't work lol 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, bllaw said:

Wait...but it's not up to  4 since commanding presence says that "when issuing orders, you can issue orders at range 4." So then there's a little gap in there at range 3 where entourage doesn't work lol 

toffolone has the initial ranges for issuing orders wrong per page 41 of the RRG. The non-upgraded range for issuing orders is 1-3, so Commanding Presence effectively changes the order range to 1-4. 

Edit: just realized you mean specifically for Entourage. Whoops.

Edited by Caimheul1313

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How this impacts official rules, I don't know, but according to TalkPolite on the Discord This is one we’ve already asked Alex and Luke about and they’ve said no

 

 

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I really agree that that will be ruled out that way in a future Q&A or rules reference.

I'm just saying that - at the time being - it is not. Therefore you can use it.  

Although for how it is written, I may agree on the "range 3 -no entourage-  zone"  you mentioned above. That's a good catch. Still (i reapet at the time being) I wthink it worths taking commanding presence on Krennic. And it surely worths to take it on Palpatine.

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Just for information, Luke Eddy just confirmed on the world championship commentary, that this combination works. 

Although he mentioned that it may be looked up in a future faq.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2019 at 7:13 AM, SkepticGuy said:

How this impacts official rules, I don't know, but according to TalkPolite on the Discord This is one we’ve already asked Alex and Luke about and they’ve said no

 

 

And apparently that was a lie. Since luke said it works. This time on a live video streaming. Not that it was necessary, since the rules are very clear.

Edited by toffolone

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2 hours ago, toffolone said:

And apparently that was a lie. Since luke said it works. This time on a live video streaming. Not that it was necessary, since the rules are very clear.

What’s funny is I was the one that asked him in both cases. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t clear what was being asked the first time! If they do a FAQ that will clear it up for everyone, and the stream is evidence in the mean time. 

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3 hours ago, toffolone said:

And apparently that was a lie. Since luke said it works. This time on a live video streaming. Not that it was necessary, since the rules are very clear.

"Apparently that was a lied" is an incredibly douchey way to put that. You really think he was lying? That's the first thing you jump to? Not "they changed there minds" or "someone made a mistake," but "he was deliberately trying to mislead us for reasons unknown."

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Or simply, english is not my first language, so I'm missing a better word...I meant "something not true" 

Then watching the streaming, luke eddie was surprised nobody was using this combo, so maybe he never said it dooes not work.  

What I don't like is that I gave clear references to the rules since the beginning (which is indeed thecsamecexplation given during the streaming). Yet those were not considered by the rules gurus, simply because....I don't know.

 

 

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17 hours ago, TalkPolite said:

What’s funny is I was the one that asked him in both cases. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t clear what was being asked the first time! If they do a FAQ that will clear it up for everyone, and the stream is evidence in the mean time. 

I saw you were genuinely surprised by that comment, dropped casually by luke, like it was the most normal thing in the universe. I never thought you were giving wrong information on purpose. 

But I never liked (neither in warhammer, nor in x wing and certainly not in legion) the "ipse dixit" attitude.

When someone contradicts my words because "LJ (or any other rules guru) said so" my first reaction is"so?". 

So sorry if you felt insulted by my comment. It was not my intent

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