Anyone use Heavy Ion Emplacements (HIE)?

[ShoutingMan 100]

I'm wondering if anyone uses Heavy Ion Emplacements (HIE) in fleet builds? If so, how so?

 

Related, why are these cards Exhaust rather than a standard critical effect like Assault Concussion Missles (ACM) or Assault Proton Torpedoes (APT)? In my limited HIE use, they seem underpowered for their points and benefits compared especially to ACM. But, perhaps I'm using them or flying them poorly.

 

Appreciate any insights into effective use of HIE.

[The Jabbawookie 5,771]

HIEs are fantastic.  Because they hit so hard and take effect before damage, a single shot will leave all of an ISD’s shields in tatters.

The reason they’re two points more and an exhaust is because 1. They do half again more damage, and 2. They can be triggered from long range thanks to Disposable Capacitors (which is also when your opponent is virtually guaranteed to have shields to strip.)  They also make a great setup for ACM to start dealing extra hull damage later.

Here are some nice builds that use them.  All of them should really have Vader or Screed, except the Raider which can get by fine with Veteran Gunners.

Raider-II: DCaps, HIEs, Veteran Gunners.

VSD-II: DCaps, HIEs, Gunnery Team, optional QBTs.

Interdictor: Brunson, Targeting Scrambler, DCaps, (another experimental retrofit,) Interdictor, HIEs.

ISD-II: Darth Vader, ECM, Gunnery Team, HIEs, officer of choice, optional turbolaser.

Kuat:  Vader/Screed, ECM, officer of choice, Fire Control Team, HIEs, ACM, Chimaera/IF under Screed.  (Ever wanted to deal 5 extra damage to something from crits?)

Edit: forgot Rebels.

CR90B:  HIEs, Hondo.  Take a CF token and pray to the dice gods, but it’s only a 50 point ship.  Likes Profundity with Toryn.

LMC80 Star Cruiser:  Intel Officer, Caitken and Shollan, HIEs, Engine Techs, turbolasers of choice (not XI7s.)  I believe @Truthiness ran a build similar to or the same as this one and got exceptional results with Raddus.

Edited May 12, 2019 by The Jabbawookie

[NairoD 217]

I use 2 Raider II with HIE and DC with Screed as my admiral. One turn of shooting make ISD shieldless and ready for Bomber/ISD/Gladiator strike to finising touches 😜

[CommanderDave 429]

Absolutely, HIEs are fantastic and worth the points. They are particularly effective on Interdictors because of the Disposable Capacitors. Thanks to the long-ranged shot, you can lead with the Dictor (or VSD2/Raider2 if you want to go that route) and then follow up with other damage dealers, particularly a Demolisher with or without ACMs and squadrons. I like them with Screed to guarantee the crit, but that isn’t essential. With Engine Techs and decent deployment, you can usually score a solid HIE hit in the second round on a big target (ISD). If you can also get a double-arc, that’s solid.

[ShoutingMan 100]

9 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

HIEs are fantastic.  Because they hit so hard and take effect before damage, a single shot will leave all of an ISD’s shields in tatters.

The reason they’re two points more and an exhaust is because 1. They do half again more damage, and 2. They can be triggered from long range thanks to Disposable Capacitors (which is also when your opponent is virtually guaranteed to have shields to strip.)  They also make a great setup for ACM to start dealing extra hull damage later.

 Here are some nice builds that use them.  All of them should really have Vader or Screed, except the Raider which can get by fine with Veteran Gunners.

 Raider-II: DCaps, HIEs, Veteran Gunners.

VSD-II: DCaps, HIEs, Gunnery Team, optional QBTs.

Interdictor: Brunson, Targeting Scrambler, DCaps, (another experimental retrofit,) Interdictor, HIEs.

ISD-II: Darth Vader, ECM, Gunnery Team, HIEs, officer of choice, optional turbolaser.

Kuat:  Vader/Screed, ECM, officer of choice, Fire Control Team, HIEs, ACM, Chimaera/IF under Screed.  (Ever wanted to deal 5 extra damage to something from crits?)

I've been playing against a Sato ACM list which throws black dice from Long range, and from something useful like an MC75, not an VSD. That's my perspective on HIE being overpriced, under-effective. 

 

I should look at the Raider. I've found that a very hard ship to fly, and with the emphasis on Large Ships, I haven't flown Raiders or Arquitens in a while. I have been looking for an excuse to fly Interdictor, so that's interesting.

[The Jabbawookie 5,771]

Just now, ShoutingMan said:

I've been playing against a Sato ACM list which throws black dice from Long range, and from something useful like an MC75, not an VSD. That's my perspective on HIE being overpriced, under-effective. 

 

I should look at the Raider. I've found that a very hard ship to fly, and with the emphasis on Large Ships, I haven't flown Raiders or Arquitens in a while. I have been looking for an excuse to fly Interdictor, so that's interesting.

That’s one way to look at it.  On the flip side, though: that’s a 32 point admiral with squadron requirements just to get a similar effect at long range (where the only ship that can double-arc is the MC30S.)  That alone makes HIEs a fair competitor.

It’s really fun on the Raider because you can keep your distance and try to stay at a range where evades are actually important.  With regard to larges, the Kuat will eat them alive, especially with a double arc.  It’s probably the reason HIEs are an exhaust.

[ShoutingMan 100]

I've got a Dual Kuat + 2 fleet I want to try with HIE + ACM. After that, maybe I can try some Raiders again.

 

I've got three VSDs. I've been wanting to fly them just to see what happens. Maybe I can make a Tri-VSD Screed fleet with Leading Shots + HIE. I think I've seen someone post a fleet build to that effect.

[Truthiness 5,707]

6 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

LMC80 Star Cruiser:  Intel Officer, Caitken and Shollan, HIEs, Engine Techs, turbolasers of choice (not XI7s.)  I believe @Truthiness ran a build similar to or the same as this one and got exceptional results with Raddus.

Love love love this ship. I long struggled to get the Lib to work for me until HIE, C&S, and Raddus all dropped at once. Turbos are QBTs for me. This works because, with Raddus, the Lib can comfortably set speed one for its first sho and then boost to speed two plus Engine Techs if need be. QBT+ET is never a bad choice IMO. The extra blue die is always welcome when trying to proc HIE especially. I had a XI7+Spinals Lib for a while, but found it didn't synergize well with the rest of my list (TRC90s). HIE and TRC go together well because you're just going for sheer volume instead of penetrating fire. It's also a fairly cheap ship. I can lose and still get a 9-2 with a tabling.

[ShoutingMan 100]

Ack! I don't need my rebel Armada-gaming partner getting ideas on how to HIE me!!!  

[ShoutingMan 100]

So, something like this:

I could remove a Raider, upgrade the flagship to an ISD-II or a Kuat, possibly make the Kuat ACM instead of HIE, and add another few upgrades to the flagship. 

Name: Screed HIE ACM
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

Imperial I (110)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Avenger (5)
= 150 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Demolisher (10)
= 85 Points

Raider II (48)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 65 Points

Raider II (48)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 65 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 30 Points

Total Points: 395

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShoutingMan

[Vergilius 2,118]

CR90-B ET/HIE in Coda's list made #2 at worlds.  I've also run them for a while, and if you can achieve the set-up right, you have a good chance of rolling the crit on that many dice.

I like Truthiness' Star Cruiser variant and ran that one in one regional, but it mostly comes down to play style.  I've done GTs to pick off light ships for so often that it is hard to pass up, but in retrospect, with the heavy-ship meta and with # of activations coming down, there are fewer builds where you have a ton of small ships in arc for GT to connect with, which leaves doing C&S/HIE as a very promising.  There's also an added benefit against upgrades like Brunson of just having a bunch of ones to cancel.

[CommanderDave 429]

7 hours ago, ShoutingMan said:

So, something like this:

I could remove a Raider, upgrade the flagship to an ISD-II or a Kuat, possibly make the Kuat ACM instead of HIE, and add another few upgrades to the flagship. 

Name: Screed HIE ACM
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

Imperial I (110)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Avenger (5)
= 150 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Demolisher (10)
= 85 Points

Raider II (48)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 65 Points

Raider II (48)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 65 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 30 Points

Total Points: 395

In addition to the upgrade to an ACM Kuat, definitely drop Veteran Gunners from the Raiders. Screed makes them redundant. That may give you the space to keep both Raiders and the Kuat.

[ShoutingMan 100]

Dropped Veteran Gunners from Raiders. Upgrade ISD-I to Kuat, swapping Gunnery Team for FCT.

Name: Screed HIE ACM
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Dangerous Territory

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Avenger (5)
= 161 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Demolisher (10)
= 85 Points

Raider II (48)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 60 Points

Raider II (48)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 60 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 30 Points

Total Points: 396

 

Or could give Kuat SA and ECM (still no GT):

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Avenger (5)
= 161 Points

[CommanderDave 429]

That looks good, especially the alternative SA/ECM build. You may fiddle around with it here and there as you play with it, but it looks like a great start. You may find Leading Shots to be more useful than Avenger, but then again, maybe not. 

[Cleto0 219]

I think the list looks better with vader because you are lacking LS on the Kuat. With screed you are trying to gimmick the list and I don't like gimmicking. Pryce makes the Kuat hit twice as hard, and Instigator keeps you safe in the squad game since we got rid of squads. Brunson gives the Gladiator a more healthy body and the raiders help you out with those shields. Honestly a bit of overkill on the shields, and I would drop the FCT/HIEs for LS+ BT

 

Gladiator I (56)
• Captain Brunson (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Demolisher (10)
= 80 Points

Raider II (48)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Instigator (4)
= 64 Points

Raider II (48)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 60 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Darth Vader (36)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Avenger (5)
= 185 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 389

[ShoutingMan 100]

I'm not sure about Screed vs Vader. Screed guarantees crits and this is a crit-centric list. Vader helps get more dice hitting (trading losing a die for spending a defense token), but costs 10 points. I've only played Vader once or twice now, so don't have a feel for his value.

Edited May 15, 2019 by ShoutingMan

[Bertie Wooster 1,905]

I think Screed is fine for the list. In situations where you need that crit, Screed can guarantee it while Vader only makes it more likely. 

I prefer the alternative ECM /SAd build. Triple HIE probably isn't necessary; the two raiders will do fine. 

[Mad Cat 2,263]

Here are my recent Screed lists

394/400, Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Salvage Run
Raider-II, HIE, D-Caps, Screed, Montferrat, 91
Raider-II, HIE, D-Caps, 60
GSD-I, Demolisher, ACMs, OE, Brunson, 82
Gozanti, Vector, Boosted Comms 29
Mona, Bobba, Bosk, IG88, Dengar, Mauler 132/134

Vector banks a squad token turn one and then Mauler can do a speed 5 ramming attack turn 2 or the slower Rogues can blast in at speed 4. The Boosted Comms is really useful sending several rogues to chase down wounded fast ships after their attack runs. Enemy CR90 or even Admonition doesn't last long with 3 rogues on its tail. 

Flagship raider harrases keeping the speed up and using D-Caps for a long range softening up attack. Second raider does the same but is more expendable so you can go for a risky second turn of HIE madness. Demolisher obliterates anything softened up by HIE fire and the rogues can help too ensuring a kill. 

 

398/400, Opening Salvo, Contested Outpost, Salvage Run
VSD-II, Screed, GTs, D-Caps, HIEs, QBTs, SFO, 136
Raider-II, HIE, D-Caps, 60
GSD-I, Demolisher, ACMs, OE, Brunson, 82
GSD-I, ACMs, OE, SFO, 68
Ciena, Rudor, 2 TIE-Int, 52

This list has more firepower with 2 HIE and 2 ACM ships. The squadrons are now a moderate to light delaying force so keep them close to the VSD to protect it and benefit from Flak. Opening Salvo is really nasty with your slow rolling ships. GSDs adding black OS dice to 2 red from their front arcs with the guaranteed crit soon shredds shields. 

[Andylicious 11]

I haven't actually run an all-close range list like yours, but I am pretty wary about it. I think you need to fly it extremely precisely to not end up with half your ships missing their shots because stuff moved out the way. With three small ships that want to be close, I think 11 points is too small a bid, but that will of course depend on your meta.

As for HIEs I am starting to love them. If you don't need Leading shots they maximize the damage you can get from your Ion Cannon slot barring disastrous rerolls.

[CommanderDave 429]

2 hours ago, Andylicious said:

I haven't actually run an all-close range list like yours, but I am pretty wary about it. I think you need to fly it extremely precisely to not end up with half your ships missing their shots because stuff moved out the way. With three small ships that want to be close, I think 11 points is too small a bid, but that will of course depend on your meta.

As for HIEs I am starting to love them. If you don't need Leading shots they maximize the damage you can get from your Ion Cannon slot barring disastrous rerolls.

The nice thing about Raider IIs and Demo is they are all effectively “long ranged” thanks to DCaps and the Demo title. The threat range is pretty significant.

[Andylicious 11]

1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

The nice thing about Raider IIs and Demo is they are all effectively “long ranged” thanks to DCaps and the Demo title. The threat range is pretty significant.

You are absolutely correct about the raiders. I don't know what I thought I was looking at. 

[NairoD 217]

I play MSU list with 2 Raiders II HIEDcap Demo, 2 Raider I EAOE and Gozanti "troll" version on screed.

Imperial/MC80 usially vaporise in one turn

[eliteone 663]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:16 PM, CommanderDave said:

Absolutely, HIEs are fantastic and worth the points. They are particularly effective on Interdictors because of the Disposable Capacitors. Thanks to the long-ranged shot, you can lead with the Dictor (or VSD2/Raider2 if you want to go that route) and then follow up with other damage dealers, particularly a Demolisher with or without ACMs and squadrons. I like them with Screed to guarantee the crit, but that isn’t essential. With Engine Techs and decent deployment, you can usually score a solid HIE hit in the second round on a big target (ISD). If you can also get a double-arc, that’s solid.

And since it's an exhaust / crit dependent, if you whiff the crit on your first roll the double arc should have you covered. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by eliteone