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markrivett

Tournament Time/Game End

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In competitive tournament play (say, a 75 min game), is there a hard rule on the end of the game?

Example 1: The timer has 60 seconds left, you and your opponent have one ship remaining, and you could conceivably have enough time to set dials. One more round?

Example 2: No one is paying attention to time. All dials are set except one. Time is called. One more round?

 

Related question. Is there a protocol for slow play? I’ve seen turns go for 10+ minutes on livestream without dials being set.

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27 minutes ago, markrivett said:

In competitive tournament play (say, a 75 min game), is there a hard rule on the end of the game?

...

Related question. Is there a protocol for slow play? I’ve seen turns go for 10+ minutes on livestream without dials being set.

Generally, when time is called, players complete the current round in full, no matter how early they are in it. They don't just stop dead.

If you think your opponent is delaying, inform a judge. There are no hard-and-fast regulations. An official has to make a judgement call.

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If even one dial is down, you play out the full round.  Strictly speaking, if you've even planning your moves, you play out the full round, but that point is kind of difficult to find.


If you think someone is slow rolling, and you're not willing to call them directly on it (which is something you probably shoudl think about doing, most intentional slow players rely on people not being willing to call them on it to prosper from it) then have a quiet word with a judge after that round, and ask them to pay some attention to the player in future.

Geek social fallacies will prevent everyone who plays them from havign fun otherwise.

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11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

If even one dial is down, you play out the full round.  Strictly speaking, if you've even planning your moves, you play out the full round, but that point is kind of difficult to find.

Basically, as soon as you're done with all of the End Phase stuff (recovering charges, cleaning up tokens, etc), the next Planning Phase begins.  I think you'd be well within your rights to ask a judge for a final round if you're done with your end step and ready to plan, while your opponent is taking their sweet time to re-set for the next round (gotta keep those templates straight).

13 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

If you think someone is slow rolling, and you're not willing to call them directly on it (which is something you probably shoudl think about doing, most intentional slow players rely on people not being willing to call them on it to prosper from it) then have a quiet word with a judge after that round, and ask them to pay some attention to the player in future.

I had the good fortune to know the TO for one event, and quietly DM'ed them when my opponent was taking 3+ minutes to set a dial for a single ship... I think it was stress-related slow play, rather than a malicious attempt to stall, but it was REALLY dragging the game.

As for getting slow players to keep moving, once I have my dials down & ready for a minute or two, I often say things like, "I'm all set, whenever you are," or "My ships are all set."  That kind of notifies them that my pace is faster than theirs, which would hopefully allow me to escalate to "I'm ready, can we keep the game moving, please?" or "We need to keep the game going," before asking a TO for "slow play" evaluation.

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Example 1: The timer has 60 seconds left, you and your opponent have one ship remaining, and you could conceivably have enough time to set dials. One more round?

Answer...  The round does not start when you place your dials nor does the game end when you have less than X amount time left. A round starts immediately after the previous round's end phase ends. Some players may be slow or delay picking up their tokens, so if you are worried about time.. confirm the round is done with your opponent, clean up fast and pick up your dial to plan your next move. Any TO worth their salt would rule you are in the planning phase now. 

Example 2: No one is paying attention to time. All dials are set except one. Time is called. One more round?

Answer: Finish the round. May the force be with you. 

 

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On 5/7/2019 at 3:37 PM, shaunmerritt said:

Example 1: The timer has 60 seconds left, you and your opponent have one ship remaining, and you could conceivably have enough time to set dials. One more round?

Answer...  The round does not start when you place your dials nor does the game end when you have less than X amount time left. A round starts immediately after the previous round's end phase ends. Some players may be slow or delay picking up their tokens, so if you are worried about time.. confirm the round is done with your opponent, clean up fast and pick up your dial to plan your next move. Any TO worth their salt would rule you are in the planning phase now. 

Example 2: No one is paying attention to time. All dials are set except one. Time is called. One more round?

Answer: Finish the round. May the force be with you. 

 

if your opponent is being slow cleaning up there tokens toss a movement dial down... no need to make it ambiguous.

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What do you guys think when someone is rushing (opposite of slow rolling)? Trying to rush though the rounds to get that one last round in? I've seen that before.

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I think rushing is an interesting case. I'm the kind of person who is planning the next moves out before a single shot is fired, so I like to keep up a fast pace of play.

I can see arguments both ways. Does it really take 5 minutes to decide if you want to fly through the asteroid or barrel roll around? Perhaps, but that seems like wasting time to me. 

Is declaring start of engagement and rolling dice before your opponent declares his end of activation phase triggers rude? Definitely, but some people really want to get to shooting and forget those phases.

In my mind, it comes down to both players and the pace set earlier in the game. If it was taking just over a minute to set dials in rounds one to five, but 5-10 minutes for the last three to four rounds I get suspicious. If the player has been taking 5 minutes all game, I might cut him some slack (especially if he is flying aces or lots of ships). Use your personal judgement, ask your opponent to speed up or slow down if it seems excessive one way or the other, then call a judge if you can't agree on a reasonable pace.

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5 hours ago, SwampyCr said:

I think rushing is an interesting case. I'm the kind of person who is planning the next moves out before a single shot is fired, so I like to keep up a fast pace of play.

I can see arguments both ways. Does it really take 5 minutes to decide if you want to fly through the asteroid or barrel roll around? Perhaps, but that seems like wasting time to me. 

Is declaring start of engagement and rolling dice before your opponent declares his end of activation phase triggers rude? Definitely, but some people really want to get to shooting and forget those phases.

In my mind, it comes down to both players and the pace set earlier in the game. If it was taking just over a minute to set dials in rounds one to five, but 5-10 minutes for the last three to four rounds I get suspicious. If the player has been taking 5 minutes all game, I might cut him some slack (especially if he is flying aces or lots of ships). Use your personal judgement, ask your opponent to speed up or slow down if it seems excessive one way or the other, then call a judge if you can't agree on a reasonable pace.

I think it's reasonable to keep the final rounds at a faster pace, if your opponent requests it.  Sometimes, the game hinges on whether or not there would be just one more round of fire... a player ahead on points often has an incentive to play slower, while someone who's behind needs another turn or two to close distance on a key turn.

That said, anyone intentionally rushing past someone else's end-of-activation or start-of-engagement triggers is distinctly unsporting conduct, especially if there are targets within reasonable range/arc for those abilities.  It's very hard to adjudicate intention, of course... in those tense last moments of a game, sometimes things get skipped.

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On 5/12/2019 at 4:12 PM, Lyianx said:

What do you guys think when someone is rushing (opposite of slow rolling)? Trying to rush though the rounds to get that one last round in? I've seen that before.

Yeah, especially those TWO  EXPENSIVE SHIP guys. They REALLY benefit from fast play as they become stronger during the game (their ships stay while you loose ships and become weaker)!

Well, just the opposite: take your time — and don’t let yourself be 'forced' into rushed mistakes...

 

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4 hours ago, Tellonius said:

Yeah, especially those TWO  EXPENSIVE SHIP guys. They REALLY benefit from fast play as they become stronger during the game (their ships stay while you loose ships and become weaker)!

Well, just the opposite: take your time — and don’t let yourself be 'forced' into rushed mistakes...

 

Generally speaking, a viable two ship list strategy is to score some points and then run to time, so they want to play fewer rounds and slow play benefits them more. Lists with higher ship counts want more rounds so they have more opportunities to push through damage and get half points on an expensive points fortress, so they want to accelerate the pace of the game.

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no and no. different game states benefits slower or faster play, no matter what the list. swarms sometimes require a lot of planning. lists with fewer ships may have to be more careful and consider their opponents options more before risking one of their pivotal pieces.

if a player is up on points, they will benefit from slowing the game down, which is not a nice thing to do. if a player is down on points, they want to keep the pace of play higher, which is generally good for the game to progress and be more interesting.

there is always a balance, though. some people will rush as much as they can, which can also be annoying.

it's that simple. please stop putting the blame on players who like different lists. take responsility for managing your time well. keep a reasonable pace of play, even when you're up on points. don't stress your opponent out, but also don't be afraid to ask them or a judge to make sure there is a reasonable pace being maintained.

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It's a very good habit to announce each and every phase of each and every turn.  Don't want to start flipping your dials and then find out your opponent wanted to drop a device in the system phase.  If you finish a final attack and you or your opponent say "dials" or "planning phase" before time is called, you finish that new turn.  Even if you say "plan-" or "p-" the previous turn is over and a new turn begins.  Unless the game is super tight, it would be courteous to the rest of the event if you play that last round speedily so the next round can start on time.

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