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Hot Rod - The Decimator lives!

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On 7/12/2019 at 10:27 AM, william1134 said:

Hum, what seems sad here is that Rear Admiral Chiraneau  is the only viable pilot for the decimator.  In v1 I liked ocuin with his ramming, which was just fun if not terribly effective.

Oicunn's needs and synergies are different from Chiraneau's. Chirpy works in these lists because he's the same initiative as Whisper, and can help set up the jukes. 

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On 7/12/2019 at 6:27 PM, william1134 said:

Hum, what seems sad here is that Rear Admiral Chiraneau  is the only viable pilot for the decimator.  In v1 I liked ocuin with his ramming, which was just fun if not terribly effective.

I've tried 2.0 Oicunn in various lists and he's mostly exactly what you say: fun, but not terribly effective.

In v1, each decimator pilot changed how the ship flew radically. It's one of the reasons why I loved it so much.

Now, they mostly play the same way: Oicunn still wants to ram as much as possible, but RAC likes to be able to limit how much incoming fire he's taking by bumping. They both need their reinforce action, but there's only one title and one Minister Tua.

RAC gets a soft focus from his ability, but Oucunn needs 000 or a force token to get any dice mods - which is one of the two main reasons why RAC is better. The other reason is because of their initiative values: having to choose the correct end to reinforce at Init3 is far harder to get right.

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Hum, I wish I had 000 and I am quite salty it didn't come in the imperial set!

I had a horrible time with RAC recently where he was walked off the board due to having 1 stress on him already after flying over a debris field and after receiving a critical (damaged engine) meant he could not take hard turns, which would give him stress.  He slowly flew off the board in 2 turns.. blugh

Minister Tua can be quite dangerous to yourself!

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Is RAC really the only good pilot? He is quite expensive. I guess the others aren't that much less, but:

Captain Oicunn (74)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    0-0-0 (5)    
    Darth Vader (14)    
    Dauntless (4)    

Seems pretty effective to me for just 100 points even. Plenty of room for a great mini-swarm, a Defender, or two smaller aces (Duchess and Quiz? Even Duchess and Whisper fit naked). The agility is reduced across all ships, so you have a reduced-agility, token-stripped, possibly even blocked or stressed ship that you can now pounce on with everything else.

There's also room for Sloane and a miniswarm if you prefer that, or you could drop 0-0-0 and fit three strikers or interceptors.

Alternative version:

Captain Oicunn (74)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    Death Troopers (6)    
    Admiral Sloane (9)    
    Dauntless (4)    
    
Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)


Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)    


Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)  

    
Total: 198

There's some nasty control and defensive ruination that your Interceptors can exploit, passive re-rolls and all! He dives in while they sit back and plink.

It's giving up Vader and 0-0-0, but should still get the job done. Of course, I guess this is also extended only. I tend to forget because I play casual so it's almost always Extended only.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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The other issue for Oicunn is that he's easy to avoid. Chiraneau's ability works at all ranges, and serves as a passive Calculate action after he reinforces. Oicunn is really just a Patrol Leader that can shoot at range 0. You can chip away at him at range, where his ability won't do anything. He probably wants Jerjerrod even more than Chiraneau in order to add the extra positional options.

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Just won a LGS OP with the below! Won $30 in store credit. Bought Saw’s Renegades....

Hot Rod by Dalli 

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(4) Dauntless
(14) Darth Vader
(8) Moff Jerjerrod
(5) Lone Wolf
(3) Shield Upgrade
(6) Proximity Mines
(2) Skilled Bombardier
Points: 118

(57) "Whisper" [TIE/ph Phantom]
(9) Fifth Brother
(6) Stealth Device
(7) Juke
(3) Passive Sensors
Points: 82

Total points: 200

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@JBFancourt, how did the prox mines work out for you? I used them in some casual games this past week and took a more critical eye to their size. They’re great when they end up right on or in front of the opponents ship. After dropping them, I always realized my perception of their size was off - they’re smaller than they are in my thoughts. So I measured and found that they are about 1 3/4 base lengths in diameter. The diameter of a proton bomb detonation is a little over 5 base lengths, or more specifically: range 2 plus the bomb token. This means a proton would be harder to dodge, but the prox mine persists and can influence navigation choices. Not really arguing for one over the other, just asking for your experience and sharing my observations. I did try a double deci where rac had protons and oicunn had prox mines. Something seemed right about having both device types in the list.

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1 hour ago, Synel said:

@JBFancourt, how did the prox mines work out for you? I used them in some casual games this past week and took a more critical eye to their size. They’re great when they end up right on or in front of the opponents ship. After dropping them, I always realized my perception of their size was off - they’re smaller than they are in my thoughts. So I measured and found that they are about 1 3/4 base lengths in diameter. The diameter of a proton bomb detonation is a little over 5 base lengths, or more specifically: range 2 plus the bomb token. This means a proton would be harder to dodge, but the prox mine persists and can influence navigation choices. Not really arguing for one over the other, just asking for your experience and sharing my observations. I did try a double deci where rac had protons and oicunn had prox mines. Something seemed right about having both device types in the list.

Glad you asked! 

The good of Proton Bombs is they force zoning and actions spent on avoiding them. All of which Vader can capitalize on if they had to spend actions for reposition. The bad is basically the same. Most ships can fairly well avoid them if they’re the sort of ship that is really punished by them or the ship just doesn’t care. There’s a lot of time before they go off. Your opponent has a fair amount of options. Especially your agile I6 aces. 

Prox mines are NOT for zoning— they’re for pure unblockable damage output. They can crush aces. They protect your rear end too. Here’s the beauty of them: you have perfect board knowledge when you drop them. You already know if you’re going to auto hit or not. If you use them like I do. I don’t spend them on a guess unless I’m close to death or I’m very sure. 

ALSO, trust me, people just forget about them. The mind set of the ace player is to dodge arcs THIS ROUND. Why I leave arc turned to the side if I’m against aces. The Soontir player feels oh so happy when he tucks into your back arc and pushes 4 (-1 reinforce) into your backside. Then BEFORE HE CAN MOVE AGAIN, next system phase you do 1 auto roll 2 auto damage on him. It’s crushing. 

During my games (1) between Vader and Prox I did 5 auto damage to a Luke Skywalker outside of the combat phase that he never got to roll an evade for. (2) During my final game I intentionally turned away to let a wounded Fenn Rau (2 hp left and being very cagey)  duck into my undefended back side to roll 5 dice against me (I still had 8 Hull). System phase he died from my Prox. Game was conceded. 

Just a preference choice and flavor option. 

EDIT: Forgot to mention the power of Jerjerrod here. You can BOOST then DROP your Prox. Very potent.

Edited by JBFancourt

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2 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

EDIT: Forgot to mention the power of Jerjerrod here. You can BOOST then DROP your Prox. Very potent.

Oh definitely! I haven’t had the specific opportunity for this yet, but I did do it to position a proton to where soontir just couldn’t get far enough away from it.

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IMHO, I prefer to stick to the proton bomb for several reasons.

I use Chiraneau with Dauntless title and ram head on a lot into enemy ships. This have the advantages to take less incoming shots and leave them very vulnerable to the proton next turn in case they try to K-turn or chase RAC. I also favor proton for the damage output when facing multiple ships. With only two ships, it can be a handy tool to deal with droid and TIE swarms. I faced a vulture swarm and a nicely dropped proton bomb dealt 6 damage overall. Very potent.
Also my list is actually 200 so the prox doesn't fit. :D

Other topic. What's your opinion on this list needing a bid or not ?

I personally think it's fine at 200 and being first player to trigger Vador before a Soontir ability or other token shenanigans. Also for blocking other I5 with RAC. The case is more difficult with Whisper. First player is great to trigger Juke and get the evade before defending but second player is best for repositioning and avoid defending at all.
Also if you wanted a bid, what upgrade will you drop first ? All in it seems really necessary.

Edited by Ximatique

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1 hour ago, Ximatique said:

IMHO, I prefer to stick to the proton bomb for several reasons......

Yes. Protons are still great! You reminded me of another benefit of using Prox Mines. You can use them in a situation where you drop then bump without being damaged by your own bomb. 

You DEFINITELY should be first player IMHO. Whisper is actually not that arc dodgy after the system phase. Also you want to shoot first so you use your Juke AND get another evade from hitting.  

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@JBFancourt How important has Skilled Bombardier been in your games?  I was thinking about a version using Prox Mines with Tua/Hull instead of Dauntless/Shield/Bombardier.

I've been enjoying the list with Tua instead of Dauntless, but it does play noticeably differently.  Lone Wolf becomes less important as Chiraneau has more actions available to lock (with Tua handling the reinforce) and I also use Jerjerrod less since Chiraneau is more consistently stressed.  However, getting several more actions with Chiraneau per game has made a big difference.

I could fit Prox Mines in that version and I prefer the idea of guaranteed damage over area deterrence, but I've been skeptical of the ability to actually land them.  I'll have to keep an eye out during my games for times when a Prox Mine would have worked successfully, but I'm wondering how many times Skilled Bombardier makes the difference.

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It’s great! Used it on most of my drops. It’s not absolutely required, but what you should do is just sit down with a large base and the one and two template and the proximity mine token and just see the space it covers to get practice. That’s what I did.

Actually, most of the time they would be forced to run over it anyways. But using that two template allows you to hit an ace before he can be coordinated or advance sensors barrel roll out of the way prior to his move. 

Edited by JBFancourt

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Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Darth Vader + Shield Upgrade + Fifth Brother 


Captain Oicunn + Shield Upgrade + Death Troopers + 0-0-0 + Intimidation + Dauntless + BT-1

 

6-0 and First in Swiss in a 43p Hyperspace. 2nd best MOV. Lost in top8 though.

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I tried doing one of these but sadly no JerJerrod in Hyperspace and I think is the heart of the list. No Tua either. 

I think a decent version may be RAC + Vader (but you lose Vader crew on RAC) or RAC + Soontir.

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4 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Darth Vader + Shield Upgrade + Fifth Brother 


Captain Oicunn + Shield Upgrade + Death Troopers + 0-0-0 + Intimidation + Dauntless + BT-1

 

6-0 and First in Swiss in a 43p Hyperspace. 2nd best MOV. Lost in top8 though.

How would you modify this in extended? What would you drop to get Jerry in? Just wondering. Also I feel like trading 5bro and BT would be better for the extra passive mods and higher regen rate (force ships will both regen one per turn for a total of 2 instead of 1).

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Here’s a rac vader list I’ve built for theory, haven’t tried it yet.

Decimator Vader

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(4) Dauntless
(2) Hull Upgrade
(5) Lone Wolf
Points: 87

(67) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
(6) Afterburners
(32) Supernatural Reflexes
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 107

Total points: 194

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2 hours ago, Synel said:

@Dalli, do you have any thoughts on a version of Hot Rod that is Hyperspace legal? Perhaps RAC with a beefy Duchess?

Here’s mine. Didn’t have time to post earlier. 

Hyper RAC

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(3) Intimidation
(4) Dauntless
Points: 97

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker]
(2) Predator
Points: 44

(53) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor]
(2) Predator
Points: 55

Total points: 196

4 points for either bid or more upgrades. Intimidation because Lone Wolf loses value with 3 ships. 

Edited by JBFancourt

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57 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

Here’s mine. Didn’t have time to post earlier. 

Hyper RAC

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(3) Intimidation
(4) Dauntless
Points: 97

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker]
(2) Predator
Points: 44

(53) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor]
(2) Predator
Points: 55

Total points: 196

4 points for either bid or more upgrades. Intimidation because Lone Wolf loses value with 3 ships. 

I’ve been thinking about Tactical Scrambler, too (large ship obstructs enemy attacks), and hiding a viable ace behind the wall of a Decimator while another ship flanks. This might be an opportunity to try that out!

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