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As a primer I only play once a week at most, and I play both factions, so experimentation is not practical for me.  With the new stuff coming out I am interested in how the new pilots affect the T-47. 

Does anyone think the new pilots will make the T-47 "playable" and if not what do you think it will take to make the T-47 playable?

 

(Yes, I still play what I want for enjoyment, and always will.  I just see a lot of hate for the T-47 and am curious why.  Since point changes are not possible, please dont just answer with a point change.)

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Posted (edited)

Everyone plays for enjoyment, and points changes are certainly possible. It's difficult to even discuss things with someone that starts off sounding combative and stating that reasonable things are impossible.

I think the additional Cover 1 doesn't affect the worst problem of the Airspeeder, has which is that it isn't nearly lethal enough to justify the amount of your army it is filling. Statistically, it will kill 2 Stormtroopers a turn, which is pretty pathetic for something that costs almost 1/4 of your available points. The Cover 2 does help keep it ffrom getting swatted out of the air by the ever-ubiquitous DTLs, but still doesn't address the primary issue.

Also, I only play once a week at most, and I'm able to experiment plenty. How much do you think people play, and how much do they need to play to experiment?

Edited by arnoldrew

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1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Everyone plays for enjoyment, and points changes are certainly possible. It's difficult to even discuss things with someone that starts off sounding combative and stating that reasonable things are impossible.

I think the additional Cover 1 doesn't affect the worst problem of the Airspeeder, has which is that it isn't nearly lethal enough to justify the amount of your army it is filling. Statistically, it will kill 2 Stormtroopers a turn, which is pretty pathetic for something that costs almost 1/4 of your available points. The Cover 2 does help keep it ffrom getting swatted out of the air by the ever-ubiquitous DTLs, but still doesn't address the primary issue.

Also, I only play once a week at most, and I'm able to experiment plenty. How much do you think people play, and how much do they need to play to experiment?

Thanks for the quick stats.  I'm giving my brother my rebels (to make room for clones n' droids, and to increase the player base), and I don't want him to make a first purchase and regret it. 

For the points, this thing should be able to take out a bare  bones trooper squad per round.  Kinda sad that it's so underpowered. At least it can blow up rebel troopers in the open..with no dodge tokens?

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2 hours ago, flightmaster101 said:

As a primer I only play once a week at most, and I play both factions, so experimentation is not practical for me.  With the new stuff coming out I am interested in how the new pilots affect the T-47. 

Does anyone think the new pilots will make the T-47 "playable" and if not what do you think it will take to make the T-47 playable?

 

(Yes, I still play what I want for enjoyment, and always will.  I just see a lot of hate for the T-47 and am curious why.  Since point changes are not possible, please dont just answer with a point change.)

They’re already nigh immune to small arms fire, with cover 2? What’s going to damage them? The HH-12s That Imperials aren’t taking?

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1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Also, I only play once a week at most, and I'm able to experiment plenty. How much do you think people play, and how much do they need to play to experiment?

When I was super deep into Runewars I was playing 3 days a week and multiple games per day.  So one game a week needs to be savored :D  I don’t have the time for every permutation like I used to.  Then again legion is a long enough play time I suppose you would have to really be dedicated to testing.  Also we don’t have a huge group so seeing diversity in lists isn’t really a thing.

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2 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

It's difficult to even discuss things with someone that starts off sounding combative

It is. So I'm curious why you went out of your way to be combative in your reply to the OP's post, which wasn't combative at all.


OP: The T-47 seems underwhelming to me as well. The new pilot certainly helps its survivability, but its bigger problem is that it just doesn't do enough damage. I agree that a point change is unlikely, at least any time soon. Somehow adding a Keyword that increases its damage potential would be ideal. A Pilot of the obvious choice, but then that would be come the default over the two existing Pilots. Adding a Hardpoint option would be nice, especially one that wasn't limited to the rear.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Jake the Hutt said:

It is. So I'm curious why you went out of your way to be combative in your reply to the OP's post, which wasn't combative at all.

I must admit that this was my first impression as well.

 

Regardless, the consensus is that the T-47 is the republic's "tank hunter" in a meta dominated by cheap troops.   So it is designed for a role that is not needed atm.   The solution would be to change its role, but rather than trying to shoehorn it into an efficient troop mulcher (which I truthfully don't think can be done at this point without errata), what about adding area denial tech instead?  Something along the lines of a hard-point proton charge/mine dropper upgrade.

Mines would eliminate the whole dichotomy of having arsenal 2 with weapons facing opposite directions (seriously... ?), and could help promote the use of saboteurs in the face of the over-saturation of sniper teams.  Looking at Deathroopers, Krennic, and the oppressor tank, mass suppression seems to be a designed alternate Imperial game tactic - maybe proton bomb denial becomes the republic one.  Would it make it worth the 175 + x points?  Seems to me it could only improve its presently perceived non-value, if only a little.

 

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I'd love to try it sometime with dropping Arsenal and get a free tailgun shot after a move (or move action). Point costs aside (to be determined) it would dramatically change the way it is played making overflying the enemy and ducking into cover an attractive option at the end of the last activation/first activation two-step, rather than being tempted to maximise nose time and getting boxed in by grenade troopers and the like.

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Cover 1 helps durability, however it still lacks firepower. If they don't do a hard errata with 30-40 point decrease, I think the airspeeder will be mediocre at best.

It's not unplayable, but it will always be too expensive for what it brings.

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Of course its unplayable. In a world where death troopers are arguably not wotth taking over snipers and bossk, this thing is way out of contention.

Its actually bad for the game. Empire has a good range of competitive builds now but rebels are still stuck on z6, luke and snipers.

Legion is an activation game and this thing costs as much as 3 or 4 of them but is unlikely to kill one.

To be worthy of the model some combination of or all of the following is required

- minus 50 poimts

- crits no longer ignore cover and dodge

- surge to hit

- blast

- ability to equip generators off the dish turret

- blast

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1 hour ago, Ophion said:

Of course its unplayable. In a world where death troopers are arguably not wotth taking over snipers and bossk, this thing is way out of contention.

Its actually bad for the game. Empire has a good range of competitive builds now but rebels are still stuck on z6, luke and snipers.

Legion is an activation game and this thing costs as much as 3 or 4 of them but is unlikely to kill one.

To be worthy of the model some combination of or all of the following is required

- minus 50 poimts

- crits no longer ignore cover and dodge

- surge to hit

- blast

- ability to equip generators off the dish turret

- blast

The T-47 is immune to Blast & Melee.

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14 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Everyone plays for enjoyment, and points changes are certainly possible. It's difficult to even discuss things with someone that starts off sounding combative and stating that reasonable things are impossible.

I think the additional Cover 1 doesn't affect the worst problem of the Airspeeder, has which is that it isn't nearly lethal enough to justify the amount of your army it is filling. Statistically, it will kill 2 Stormtroopers a turn, which is pretty pathetic for something that costs almost 1/4 of your available points. The Cover 2 does help keep it ffrom getting swatted out of the air by the ever-ubiquitous DTLs, but still doesn't address the primary issue.

Also, I only play once a week at most, and I'm able to experiment plenty. How much do you think people play, and how much do they need to play to experiment?

i wish i got to play once a week but i am working hard to grow the community here and that why i own every thing so i can get ppl to play

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7 minutes ago, MyronMagic said:

The T-47 is immune to Blast & Melee.

I think he was saying that the t-47 needs the blast keyword associated with it's main gun to make it viable

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3 hours ago, jocke01 said:

Cover 1 helps durability, however it still lacks firepower.

TBH I'm kinda amazed something with 3 black, 3 red and impact 3 "lacks firepower".  Firepower per cost I can see, and impact doesn't mean much when 'nobody' uses vehicles.  I really dig the idea of blast to help in the infantry heavy meta.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

TBH I'm kinda amazed something with 3 black, 3 red and impact 3 "lacks firepower".  Firepower per cost I can see, and impact doesn't mean much when 'nobody' uses vehicles.  I really dig the idea of blast to help in the infantry heavy meta.

The issue with the dice is the lack of surge.  That makes the black dice 1/2 (4/8) and the red dice are 5/8 for hits. The compulsory move makes it arguably easier to take an Aim before Attacking, but having only played Rebels from the release of the game I can tell you that Black dice are not to be trusted and seem to blank out as often as White dice.

Yes, I realize the "maths" say different but you aren't rolling enough sets in a single game to reach statistical averages.  Also, if you don't think an Aim is worth it, talk to an Imperial player....

If you are going for a purely competitive list, the T-47 won't make the cut. Too many points for not enough effect. If you are playing a non-competitive game then the T-47 can be very cinematic and fun. I've had one completely turn a game around with hot dice.

Edited by NeonWolf

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Just now, NeonWolf said:

The issue with the dice is the lack of surge.  That makes the black dice 1/2 (4/8) and the red dice are 5/8 for hits. The compulsory move makes it arguably easier to take an Aim before Attacking, but having only played Rebels from the release of the game I can tell you that Black dice are not to be trusted and seem to blank out as often as White dice.

Red dice are 6/8 IIRC. To a degree I think the dynamics around compulsory move overall reduces firepower as you are constantly heading into the threat radius of your enemy. So when you end one activation by firing you really need to consider forgoing the next attack to fly out of trouble. That's why I think a free tailgun attack after moves would be the best improvement. It would effectively increase damage output in all cases and make the speeder a lot slippier to nail down.

The Cover 2 pilots help a lot but it still doesn't make it act like the movie version.

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I know i'm gonna get hashed for saying this and everyone's gonna say i'm crazy like they did when i said i didn't like using Boba Fett, but I really like using the air speeder. I don't use it super often but when i do, i think it's a really powerful unit. It is crazy good at taking down Boba Fett, and with it's height it can often ignore units hiding far back from their cover. When it cant use the height to it's advantage, it's fast enough to get behind any troops. With snipers being used so much in the meta it's so great at taking out snipers nests hiding far away since it's so fast and the snipers can't effectively deal any damage to it. I do agree that it is a little over priced but wouldn't be surprised if FFG does something to make it a little more effective but it doesn't need that much of a boost. Maybe a pilot giving it Sharpshooter 2 or something along those lines.

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7 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

You should take a closer look at your red dice 😉

Yep, forgot the Crit on those, so 4/8 and 6/8 for black and red respectively.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Maybe the guns could use critical 2. 

Or just a rebel pilot that does the same thing as the imperial pilot giving you an attack surge. FFG will probably want to be creative tho and give it something different

Edited by bllaw

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