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Managarmr

So..Upcoming Huge ships probably aren't going to be happy

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A couple of details that comes to mind concerning the electro bomb (considering that we played through 3 epic leagues in V1):

1 - Huge ships had range 3-5 weapons, so they'll probably shoot the ship down easily before it can launch the bomb in a troubling spot

2 - The only way for the electro bomb fleet to take advantage of it is for the fleet to actually move alongside the carrier... and get hit by said bomb at the same time.

3- We don't know how huge ships will be affected by ion in V2.0.  Also, I suspect that like stress in V1.0, huge ships may not be affected by disarm tokens.

 

So really, I would not panic just yet.

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5 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

I would really like to know how they plan to handle turning and bumping on the 3x3 field option. Unless they are resistant to board edge in some way and don’t bulldoze small bases I’m not seeing this idea as being a good one. Don’t get me wrong I am thrilled they are giving some love to huge ships but a swarm of any kind takes up a fair amount of real-estate and big boys need room.

I’m guessing they’ll be MUCH more maneuverable than before (pivot in place?), though obviously still quite slow comparatively. They may also use an Armada-like mechanic to make bumping small ships good for your enemy instead of for you (that bit never made sense to me).

Especially if they’re going to make the gauntlet epic (though I hope it’s just large), they need to have options other than 1-4 straight and 1-2 bank

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18 hours ago, Managarmr said:

On 1), Huge ship will just eat ordnance, as they will have extremely low agility, if any at all. Loosing automatically a shield, costs them. Unless FFG comes with Huge ship upgrades enabling defense measures against ordnance. Will they use that design space? Might only lead to people bringing MOAR laser firepower when fighting Huge ships, leaving the snubfighter ordnance at home, as they can be points wasted when the huge target has useful anti ordnance measures.

I'm really confused. How are Plasma Torpedoes some new, magic silver bullet against Huge Ships when Proton Torpedoes are already a thing?

They literally have the same max damage. The difference is that Plasma Torps is a guaranteed hit against shields, but are unlikely to crit against hull and can only do 3 damage max to hull. Proton Torps can always do 4 damage, and are very likely to crit against hull but don't get a guaranteed hit against shields.

Also... Torpedoes are good against large ships. Colour me surprised. It's only literally their intended use, after all. 

19 hours ago, Managarmr said:

On 2), We do not know yet how Huge ships will move, but having their huge footprint/base and only 3×3 playing area they cannot be too fast, otherwise they will just fly out in a few turns. And if their movement isn't going to be ridiculously unrealistic, they are very likely being unable to turn on a dime. Both factors will probably lead to them being forced to eat the Electro proto bomb. Ion effects on Huge ships is a great unknown yet. Disarm on an armed Huge is a catastrophe, your huge points sink has to fire every turn. Shield loss neither happy.

I mean, this is making a ton of assumptions. You even say it yourself.

We don't know what the ion rules are for Huge ships. We don't know what the disarm rules are for Huge ships. We don't know what their stats are going to be like in 2e, or how many shields they'll have, or whether they'll have damage reduction abilities. 

I think people are worrying too much about electro-proton bomb. The mass ion effect on small base ships is the scariest part about it, as you're really likely to roll paint on 4 dice and that's all you need. Any ship that lands on top of the bomb the turn it's dropped is basically ****ed, as the only way to get out of range 2 is a 5 speed or a 4 and a boost. I don't know that the weapons disabled aspect as actually all that threatening, but it is pretty NPE I guess.

If a Huge Ship is in a position to panic about losing a maximum of 4 shields in a once per game event, they probably have other problems. 

 

Daily reminder that electro-proton bomb affects the team that dropped it just as much too. I'd love it if people could actually describe to me the situation where one side gets to drop or launch it, wait one turn and then be a) out of range of the bomb themselves and b) in range of enemy ships that c) were in range of the bomb. 

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3 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

A couple of details that comes to mind concerning the Also, I suspect that like stress in V1.0, huge ships may not be affected by disarm tokens.

I'd guess that they will be able to assign a disarm to each weapon independently.

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38 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd guess that they will be able to assign a disarm to each weapon independently.

Sounds reasonable, but doesn't sound like a typical FFG design decision

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3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I’m guessing they’ll be MUCH more maneuverable than before (pivot in place?), though obviously still quite slow comparatively.

This would be a cool idea, non forced movement. Either you dial in a maneuver OR you rotate your whole ship like a turret. Makes sense thematically just not sure how well game pieces can reflect that. Maybe that’s why it’s a casual format option, it’s going to be impossible to be 100% accurate in ship rotation and tournie kids would just fight over it. 

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I would really like to see actions/effects be applied to weapons hardpoints individually.

14 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

...

The problem with 1e huge ships was that their action economy was always so poor, plus they normally had no way of modding focus results. Maybe that second one is okay, but that combined with the difficulty of energy management made them kind of unwieldy and inefficient most of the time. I'm really curious what new mechanics the devs have cooked up to bring them back into balance and make them engaging and intuitive to play.

Maybe a crew, team or system type thing that let's you place a focus or calculate token on a weapon or weapons and it can only be used when that weapon engages that turn.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd guess that they will be able to assign a disarm to each weapon independently.

Even further, it would be interesting if each hard point on a huge ship had its own hull value and could be targeted by attackers.  This might be over-complicating things but could be a fun mechanic.  Hit specific weapons with jams/ions to decrease the Huge ships ability to hit back.

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13 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

I would really like to know how they plan to handle turning and bumping on the 3x3 field option. Unless they are resistant to board edge in some way and don’t bulldoze small bases I’m not seeing this idea as being a good one. Don’t get me wrong I am thrilled they are giving some love to huge ships but a swarm of any kind takes up a fair amount of real-estate and big boys need room.

Like many things in X-wing, maneuvering the old Huge ships just took practice. I got to be pretty good at it, and I thoroughly enjoyed the way they moved across the table. I don't think it would be hard to have them run laps around the obstacles in the middle. The Huge ship maneuver template was good, and the redesign by Team Covenant was even better. Honestly, I'm struggling to think of a way to make these big ships move that's better than what they had.

And I'm not a fan of them sitting still and rotating. Their engines are all in the back, so it just looks weird to me. I look forward to learning more about what the developers have in store for us!

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1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

I look forward to learning more about what the developers have in store for us!

They could include with the Huge ships another ship model, say a X-Wing or a TIE Advanced, and some crazy good upgrades or pilots for those ships everybody wants to have?

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2 hours ago, KaLeu said:

They could include with the Huge ships another ship model, say a X-Wing or a TIE Advanced, and some crazy good upgrades or pilots for those ships everybody wants to have?

Shaking. My. Head.

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2 hours ago, KaLeu said:

They could include with the Huge ships another ship model, say a X-Wing or a TIE Advanced, and some crazy good upgrades or pilots for those ships everybody wants to have?

The salt is strong with this one...

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6 hours ago, KaLeu said:

They could include with the Huge ships another ship model, say a X-Wing or a TIE Advanced, and some crazy good upgrades or pilots for those ships everybody wants to have?

Haha, they've already said this is something they're definitely not going to do.

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I'm hoping they'll do something similar to the Armada system. It doesn't make sense for kilometer long ships to be able to dodge anything, nevermind guided anti-ship weapons. Armada, for those who haven't played it, offers a suite of defensive tokens that refresh every turn, each having different effects and each suite being unique to the ship type. Some of them wouldn't work unless they introduced shield zones to huge ships (which would actually be great, I reckon), and some would only work in specific instances, but the basic ones like Brace lets you halve one attack, rounded up. Simple, thematic, and effective. 

I could totally get behind the command system for them, too, but I don't see that happening.

 

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