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Managarmr

So..Upcoming Huge ships probably aren't going to be happy

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Posted (edited)

about

1) Plasma Torps

2) but especially Electro proto bombs.

 

On 1), Huge ship will just eat ordnance, as they will have extremely low agility, if any at all. Loosing automatically a shield, costs them. Unless FFG comes with Huge ship upgrades enabling defense measures against ordnance. Will they use that design space? Might only lead to people bringing MOAR laser firepower when fighting Huge ships, leaving the snubfighter ordnance at home, as they can be points wasted when the huge target has useful anti ordnance measures.

On 2), We do not know yet how Huge ships will move, but having their huge footprint/base and only 3×3 playing area they cannot be too fast, otherwise they will just fly out in a few turns. And if their movement isn't going to be ridiculously unrealistic, they are very likely being unable to turn on a dime. Both factors will probably lead to them being forced to eat the Electro proto bomb. Ion effects on Huge ships is a great unknown yet. Disarm on an armed Huge is a catastrophe, your huge points sink has to fire every turn. Shield loss neither happy. 

Edited by Managarmr
Can't type...

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1 minute ago, svelok said:

Plasma Torps aren't any spookier to high HP ships than proton torps unless they're considerably cheaper

For a comparison on the power curve, they are marginally nastier versions of Concussion Missiles. I'd say 7pt for them sounds good, and Redline begins to salivate.

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In a large match (I'm guessing 600 points) you only get 1 Electro Proton Bomb because it's limited. That bomb will be much more effective against a squad of fighters than a single huge ship (unless of course you can catch the huge ship and a bunch of event fighters). Although with two turns before detonation, I can see fighters being hard to catch.

Also note that we don't yet know if weapons disabled tokens work on Huge ships. If they do, that's bad news for a ship with more than one weapon, but some of the best huge ships are unarmed, filling a short time instead. 

Also remember that epic is typically played on a 6'x3' area, so there are ways to avoid running into that Electro Proton Bomb problem.

Plasma Torpedoes are scary, but if your huge ship is reinforcing, it's not quite as bad. If they want to take locks instead of focus, the rest of my squad can shoot them down easier. I'm not too concerned about these upgrades in Epic play.

 

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25 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Also remember that epic is typically played on a 6'x3' area

Huge ships are also legal for casual Standard Format (200 v 200). They've been separated from Epic format in 2.0 and are now just another ship size, though they will likely see more play in Epic than in Standard. :)

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25 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Huge ships are also legal for casual Standard Format (200 v 200). They've been separated from Epic format in 2.0 and are now just another ship size, though they will likely see more play in Epic than in Standard. :)

True, and I see support huge ships taking the field in standard play more often than gunships. I could be wrong, though. Raider used up all your points in 1.0 before upgrades, but that may change if they think fewer points will be better balanced.

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2 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Plasma Torpedoes are scary, but if your huge ship is reinforcing, it's not quite as bad. If they want to take locks instead of focus, the rest of my squad can shoot them down easier. I'm not too concerned about these upgrades in Epic play.

I am very much hoping for an armor mechanic, that allows a Huge Ship to reduce all incoming damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1). I've been hoping for that since before Huge Ships 1.0 were announced, so who knows if it's actually going to ever happen.

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24 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

I am very much hoping for an armor mechanic, that allows a Huge Ship to reduce all incoming damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1). I've been hoping for that since before Huge Ships 1.0 were announced, so who knows if it's actually going to ever happen.

My knee-jerk reaction is that it seriously hurts TIE fighters. Then I remember that they still get 3 dice at range 1. And at any rate, giving the duties of hunting capital ships to a more specialized TIE isn't a bad thing with respect to lore, so that armor mechanic is a big win in my book. I like it.

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Posted (edited)

Plasma Torps could be an issue, but I don't think they'll be that bad. max 4 damage, but once shields are gone every additional torp tops out at 3. Sounds strong within reason, points depending of course.

The Electro Proton Bomb is a fairly powerful effect that covers a big area, but ultimately can happen just a single time in any game. We don't yet know how Ion interacts with huge ships, but if energy is still a thing, I'd wager it will be stripped by ion. Stripping energy and some shields with the bonus chance for a disarm could be useful, but doesn't sound like it will cripple anything from a single hit. Of course if it can hit the fore and aft of a huge ship at the same time, that could be crippling since it will be throwing tons of dice with a pretty good chance of disarming and chewing through a lot of resources, but I am not convinced that will be a thing. Time will tell though.

Edited by Hippie Moosen

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4 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

I am very much hoping for an armor mechanic, that allows a Huge Ship to reduce all incoming damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1). I've been hoping for that since before Huge Ships 1.0 were announced, so who knows if it's actually going to ever happen.

Man I love this idea. Capital ships have much better shielding and armor plating anyway, right? It just makes sense.

I wish the people on these forums didn't have so many great ideas. It makes all the awesome things FFG does look a little less impressive

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2 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Man I love this idea. Capital ships have much better shielding and armor plating anyway, right? It just makes sense.

I wish the people on these forums didn't have so many great ideas. It makes all the awesome things FFG does look a little less impressive

Compared to how many people FFG likely has working on any one of their products, the forums has a much larger cumulative mass of grey matter to pull from. What Punning Pundit describes is the 2.0 Reinforce mechanic. I agree it would fit for huge ships, even the smaller ones as well as the actual capital ships (Being the Raider and the CR-90).

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Compared to how many people FFG likely has working on any one of their products, the forums has a much larger cumulative mass of grey matter to pull from. What Punning Pundit describes is the 2.0 Reinforce mechanic. I agree it would fit for huge ships, even the smaller ones as well as the actual capital ships (Being the Raider and the CR-90).

Yes, but 2e reinforce as a passive effect of huge ships (or that's what I understand he's saying). If a small ship reinforces one side or another, maybe its shields are approaching the durability that a capital ship's normally would have. A huge ship should probably have that effect all the time.

The problem with 1e huge ships was that their action economy was always so poor, plus they normally had no way of modding focus results. Maybe that second one is okay, but that combined with the difficulty of energy management made them kind of unwieldy and inefficient most of the time. I'm really curious what new mechanics the devs have cooked up to bring them back into balance and make them engaging and intuitive to play.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Knave Squawk said:

I want a frickin' raptor. What do I need to do to get a frickin' raptor?!

Start searching for really old mosquitoes...? 

 

Re: huge ship "armor", I'm definitely in favor. You never see tie fighters just firing puny pew pew lasers at larger ships to any effect. No, whenever you see huge-class ships firing, they're either exchanging turbolaser shots, or being attacked with ordinance (or being rammed, I guess). Having the Huges flat ignore one damage sounds good to me. 

Edited by takfar

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33 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Yes, but 2e reinforce as a passive effect of huge ships (or that's what I understand he's saying). If a small ship reinforces one side or another, maybe its shields are approaching the durability that a capital ship's normally would have. A huge ship should probably have that effect all the time.

The problem with 1e huge ships was that their action economy was always so poor, plus they normally had no way of modding focus results. Maybe that second one is okay, but that combined with the difficulty of energy management made them kind of unwieldy and inefficient most of the time. I'm really curious what new mechanics the devs have cooked up to bring them back into balance and make them engaging and intuitive to play.

Well, Huge ships are getting two actions per-turn now, so there's that. I'd love to see these larger ships have greater range in certain actions like jam, coordinate, and even tractor beams. I'd love to see something like a point defense system modification to make torpedoes less devastating. So, let's say a TIE Bomber angles in and fires a proton torpedo at range 2 at a Rebel Blockade Runner. After all it's dice modifications, it has 2 hits and 1 crit. Unlike a normal defense roll, the defender rolls attack dice equal to the number of hits and crits of the attacker, in this case 3. Hits would cancel the torpedo hits, and crits cancel the torpedo crits or TWO hits. The defender rolls two hits and a blank. The torpedo hits with it's rolled damage. Now, let's have the defender roll two crits and a blank: the one crit blocks the attacker's crit and the second blocks the two hits.

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I would really like to know how they plan to handle turning and bumping on the 3x3 field option. Unless they are resistant to board edge in some way and don’t bulldoze small bases I’m not seeing this idea as being a good one. Don’t get me wrong I am thrilled they are giving some love to huge ships but a swarm of any kind takes up a fair amount of real-estate and big boys need room.

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19 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

I would really like to know how they plan to handle turning and bumping on the 3x3 field option. Unless they are resistant to board edge in some way and don’t bulldoze small bases I’m not seeing this idea as being a good one. Don’t get me wrong I am thrilled they are giving some love to huge ships but a swarm of any kind takes up a fair amount of real-estate and big boys need room.

Probably epic play will use a 6x3 field as it did in 1e.

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