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sthej

Darth Vader choice

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I haven't had much luck with the x1. The dial seems clunky and it has few actions. However, most of my plays have been with Stele and Strom and it looks like Vader is getting a lot of love. So I want to try him out. 

I have two questions for you all:

1) what is your favorite Vader build

2) if you had to choose Hate or FCS, which one do you take? 

Thanks!

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Posted (edited)

Afterburners all day. Then fcs. Im not a fan of hate, cuz vader is a hit and runner, so he has inbetween rounds to recharge force. Id rather have a bid or go for sense. When vader is range 0-1 its free look at opponents dial. Very useful. Last game vader used sense like 5 times. Only paid for it once.

Edited by wurms

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16 minutes ago, wurms said:

Afterburners all day. Then fcs. Im not a fan of hate, cuz vader is a hit and runner, so he has inbetween rounds to recharge force. Id rather have a bid or go for sense. When vader is range 0-1 its free look at opponents dial. Very useful. Last game vader used sense like 5 times. Only paid for it once.

Sense or afterburners? I'm trying to fit it into a list but have limited points.

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6 hours ago, sthej said:

Sense or afterburners? I'm trying to fit it into a list but have limited points.

afterburners!

fcs is optional but usefull

sense is expensive....

i tried it in a squad with vader and 3 strikers. i thought that it could be good paired with striker's ailerons.... to pass them the "perfect knowledge" in sistem phase so they can change direction!

it's fun!

but...... it reduceces vader's efficency.... and it's unusefull in the first approach  so .... i left this build.... try it!

 

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I was very skeptical about Afterburners on Vader - I wondered if it could be justified spending so many points (back when it was 8pts) for something you could only use twice a game.
Then I tried it and good lord, never take him without them. They are essential!
I like FCS on him too simply because the synergy is so obvious and perfect, and it's dirt cheap so theres little reason not to take it - there isn't a lot else you would use the Sensor slot for in any case.
Hate, though, I don't agree with. I rarely found I was spending enough force to require additional regeneration, and if I was then I was disengaging and not getting shot/hit anyway.

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Everyone else has already covered the essentials (Afterburners always - staple it to him).

The only other thing I'd add is that Collision Detector isn't a bad shout on him. It's very points dependent, obviously, but Vader's the only TIE/x1 who doesn't have FCS stapled to him because at I6 with his ability, he rarely has any difficulty getting a new lock every time you need one. With the sensor slot open, CD can be an option for maximising his ability to move around with knowledge of the board state. It combines very well with Afterburners to make him that bit less predictable, to better set up for next turn or it can make it easier for you to use rocks as cover to keep him alive. Don't forget it lets you keep the obstructed bonus defence die, while denying it to anyone Vader attacks. 

 

I'd personally take it over FCS + Hate, but I'd be less likely to take it than just FCS. 

 

Sense as an option is super list dependent, if you ask me. As an I6, Vader himself gains a lot less from Sense. But of course it also triggers before all your other ships move. If you're using blockers, it can be great for fine tuning your formation to guarantee the block and let all the other ships get arc. If you're using lower Init pilots with lots of reposition ability, like Turr or Saber Squadron pilots, it also allows them a better chance of avoiding that enemy. If you're running Vader with all I5s and 6s, though, I'd probably pass on Sense unless you know high bid I6 pilots are virtually guaranteed opposition in your local meta. Even then, I'd argue using the points on your own bid is probably better.

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9 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Sense as an option is super list dependent, if you ask me. As an I6, Vader himself gains a lot less from Sense. But of course it also triggers before all your other ships move. If you're using blockers, it can be great for fine tuning your formation to guarantee the block and let all the other ships get arc. If you're using lower Init pilots with lots of reposition ability, like Turr or Saber Squadron pilots, it also allows them a better chance of avoiding that enemy. If you're running Vader with all I5s and 6s, though, I'd probably pass on Sense unless you know high bid I6 pilots are virtually guaranteed opposition in your local meta. Even then, I'd argue using the points on your own bid is probably better.

Yes, Sense is very list dependent. I run it with Vizier in the squad with Vader. Vizier's entire purpose in the squad is to live and coordinate and block. So sense is perfect. I had Vizier arc dodging Poe since I could see where Poe would end up and in my head calculate a boost/broll possibility. Played against a Poe,Lulo,Nein list and Vizier didnt take any damage until last round when opponent tried to get him to half for the win.

Ive also tried Sense in the Tie Salad list a couple times and hated it. Never really used it because Vader hangs out in the back, while the front three ships go to work, and my ships just cared about attacking and getting shots, and most of time you know where to point your guns.

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19 minutes ago, sthej said:

Does everyone pretty much agree that Vader should be run in flyby passes, versus staying engaged?

Yes, hit and run.  Vader can get f’ed up if you get him in the wrong position.  A swarm of A-wings can easily take Vader out in one round.  And usually you’re trying to corner the opponents ace so you can’t be in the action all of the time.

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Posted (edited)

So I’ve run Vader with afterburners and was just wondering how/when people use it.  Vader is fairly arc dodgey to begin with.  I’ve used it to boost within range 1 of an opponent.  Any thoughts?

Edited by pakirby

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5 hours ago, pakirby said:

So I’ve run Vader with afterburners and was just wondering how/when people use it.  Vader is fairly arc dodgey to begin with.  I’ve used it to boost within range 1 of an opponent.  Any thoughts?

i quite always use one charges in the first engage to "close the distance" dodje and possibly hit hard.... 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, pakirby said:

So I’ve run Vader with afterburners and was just wondering how/when people use it.  Vader is fairly arc dodgey to begin with.  I’ve used it to boost within range 1 of an opponent.  Any thoughts?

I rarely use them for offense unless its absolutely crucial, like a killshot on a 3 hull 1 agility ship, 2 hull, 2 agility ship, then I may boost into range 1. Or maybe to catch an expensive ship like Poe, since 4 damage on him is usually worth 35-40 points and a range 1 attack on him can mean the game, even if you never attack him again. Otherwise, I mostly save them for defense arc dodging because Vader is a nice points fortress and boosting out of other ships range 1 arcs is muy importante

Edited by wurms

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Fire Control System, Afterburners, Hate is "industry standard"

  • Fire Control System
    • No real downside to having it, and it's cheap but his ability means acquiring a lock isn't too hard, and acquiring and spending the 'full' lock means hitting a touch harder. Fire Control is better in an extended duel, though, and means you can keep a lock on a talon roll or k-turn, so I'd recommend it.
    • The only other real option is collision detector, which isn't bad but is much more situation-specific.
  • Afterburners
    • Given that the TIE/x1 is agility 3, other modifications like shield or stealth cost a fortune. Because the TIE/x1 lacks boost natively, this option is priceless - especially since (unlike the TIE/sk and a lot of scum ships) it has the speed 3 turn, meaning turn-and-free-boost is an option, very good in a big swirling dogfight. 
  • Hate
    • Agreed that Vader wants to hit-and-run and avoid getting bogged down. However, recovering force from damage is still nice (since you can spend force on defence and recover it if you still take damage. It's never an upgrade you want to trigger, but at 3 points it's a good general purpose upgrade, and with his abilty vader can eat force fast, so the odd 'extra' recharge can be priceless.
    • Supernatural Reflexes is also great but painfully expensive. 
    • Sense is nice, but dependent on the rest of your squad being able to take advantage of it - the problem boils down to the fact that if you have a well-equipped vader, you don't have that much of a 'rest of the squad'. It's still a fair swap for Hate, though. 

 

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4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fire Control System, Afterburners, Hate is "industry standard"

  • Fire Control System
    • No real downside to having it, and it's cheap but his ability means acquiring a lock isn't too hard, and acquiring and spending the 'full' lock means hitting a touch harder. Fire Control is better in an extended duel, though, and means you can keep a lock on a talon roll or k-turn, so I'd recommend it.
    • The only other real option is collision detector, which isn't bad but is much more situation-specific.
  • Afterburners
    • Given that the TIE/x1 is agility 3, other modifications like shield or stealth cost a fortune. Because the TIE/x1 lacks boost natively, this option is priceless - especially since (unlike the TIE/sk and a lot of scum ships) it has the speed 3 turn, meaning turn-and-free-boost is an option, very good in a big swirling dogfight. 
  • Hate
    • Agreed that Vader wants to hit-and-run and avoid getting bogged down. However, recovering force from damage is still nice (since you can spend force on defence and recover it if you still take damage. It's never an upgrade you want to trigger, but at 3 points it's a good general purpose upgrade, and with his abilty vader can eat force fast, so the odd 'extra' recharge can be priceless.
    • Supernatural Reflexes is also great but painfully expensive. 
    • Sense is nice, but dependent on the rest of your squad being able to take advantage of it - the problem boils down to the fact that if you have a well-equipped vader, you don't have that much of a 'rest of the squad'. It's still a fair swap for Hate, though. 

 

Very thorough. Thanks!

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I have finally switched my empire over to 2.0. I wasn't able to find the sequence to the system phase for strikers. For them to drop and bomb and adaptive ailerons. Also with sense on Vader, which of these happens first to last? Strikers being I3.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MHamerR8 said:

I have finally switched my empire over to 2.0. I wasn't able to find the sequence to the system phase for strikers. For them to drop and bomb and adaptive ailerons. Also with sense on Vader, which of these happens first to last? Strikers being I3.

You choose the order between dropping the bombs and using sense, as they trigger at the same time.  Strikers drop bombs first, then sense triggers. Then at I3, you use adaptive ailerons, reveal your dial, and move.

Edited by Toph
I was wrong

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2 hours ago, Toph said:

You choose the order between dropping the bombs and using sense, as they trigger at the same time. Then at I3, you use adaptive ailerons, reveal your dial, and move.

Correction: in the Rules Reference (1.0.3) on page 18 under System Phase it says this:

" The System Phase is the second phase of a round. During this phase, the sequence of play starts with the ship with the lowest initiative and continues in ascending order. "

So the strikers at I3 will have to make their choice with bombs before Vader can Sense the opponent's dial.

 

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I like Vader with just FCS. I use him as an anvil in a triple aces list, engaging at R3 with lock + focus, and frequently moving one forwards and focusing in subsequent rounds. His force battery makes him very durable barring complete blankouts, and keeping him cheap means that he nearly always takes out more than he's worth, and lets Whisper and Fel flank and clean up. Bumping into ships is often helpful too, since it denies an incoming shot and Vader has mods regardless.

In my experience that tends to work when facing four or fewer ships. Five or more, and very strong jousters like triple or quad Fangs, require hit-and-runs instead. That's when I do miss Afterburners.

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