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Make Armada digital for points and slots...

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On 5/14/2019 at 8:43 AM, ForceSensitive said:

For one thing, the cards wouldn't be using the same formatting anyway so may as well redesign the appearance to make them more readable. Minor, but real.

this might be a more individual problem I dont think we need a 2.0 for that 

Other things are still on my mind too. Activation advantage needs core rules balancing. I've seen others ideas for this, I have my own version of course. It's possible to do.

Agree no 2.0 needed simple pass rule will do. funny thing tho lately I'm seeing this as less of a problem with better tactics I'm employing  

Squadrons work currently fairly well. But one tiny imbalance and they seem to be the first thing to break. **** the game was practically released with Broken Rhymer. Than they had to Nerf Riekan twice because he interacted with them. Gallant Haven got nerfed, flotillas had to get limited partly because of their cheap ability to activate squads. The list just gotta on and on with these guys. Let's not even talk about Yavaris right now. 
Only thing thing here I can agree on is Riekan I think he should only be ships but IMO Motti is a harder nut to crack 

The command system is great... But... Nobody ever seems to get it. And why should they? Everyone I had to teach the game to, this was one of the many snags I'd run into. Two reference a stat on the card, the other two are arbitrary things you just have to remember. There's a disconnect between the effect of the command and the ship performing it. I.e. Concentrate Fire does the same thing on a ISD as it does on a CR-90. There's also a disconnect between the size of a ship and how much it can do on a turn. When the MC-80 Commander decides to order squadrons, the steering and engineering crew take a smoke break and go play cards with the Gunners? It just disappoints and every play session me and the guys jeer it. We can do better with this. 
This is a key part of the game its what makes Armada Armada. It rewards players who know when to pop the right command at the right time. all part of being a good Admiral 

Squadron combat is swingy AF. At this scale of battle game, combat between squadrons should represent the dogfight nature that it is. Warhammer does this in Age of Sigmar and 40k. Pretty sure Drop Zone Commander does this. X-wing tracks a 'skill' stat but for equal skill has a simultaneous rule. FFS Axis and Allies has this. Counter shouldn't be a special ability of squads, it should be a core ability of all squads that some squad types do better at. It should not be possible to steam roll just because the game is designed to. For that matter it should be a core ability of ships too.

To much has already been said about Squadrons else were not going to poke that bear again here 

Also I fear for what delaying the second edition will do the games base. X-wing and it's transition is a cautionary tale. They waited too long to do it at all and lost a hefty chunk of players who have up on the BS, and then when they finally got around to it there was so much to convert that many bailed anyway. It's recovering now but I feel like they aren't getting the response they wanted. Of the old players in my area, or if twenty or so at one regular night, there are three left. And we're nowhere near to the old numbers with the new players joining yet. Armada is already on the proverbial ropes. Our area, it's *almost* died. Were down from 12 players to MAYBE 4 on a regular basis. I'd hate to see it died because of bad design management. 

2.0 will kill this game. many players dropped once X Wing did it and in our area Armada is on the rise it would grow faster if there was stock but if a 2.0 came out I know almost everyone in our group will drop it. We picked up a few player because the dropped X Wing and had time and money for a new game. the game design is not a bad one the conclusion form competitive gamer's that I speak to say the love the game its the tournament structure and format that keep them way. Competitive players don't like to be submarined.  

Look. I may sound Doom and gloom on this, but my heartfelt feeling is this: Armada is a great concept with a lot of original ideas and mechanics that have never been done before. It would be insane to expect them to have gotten it right on the first shot. X-wing was much the same. Moral is: it may not need it now, but it is wise to give it one before it's too late. At some point you have to say okay, that was good, but it was a first go, now let's make it better. 

I really dont see any reason to have a Armada 2.0. The reason X Wing needed on was it was dying under its own weight due to never been taking seriously in development as a game that would evolve into what it would become. the developers mention this many times. When Armada first came out you could see all that what they learned from X Wing and put it into Armada. The bigger problem with the game is the tournament formats that is what keep the players from wanting to invest for the reasons I talk about above.   

 

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On 5/14/2019 at 11:17 AM, Amanal said:

An app, that would allow points changes and small refinements with a team that listens to the players and isn't afraid to errata cards is a good middle ground between stagnation and the chaos of a complete upgrade.

FFG has to look at ways to curate their games and look after the players in a better way. These games aren't board games, they have a life of their own and you need to look after that, it isn't sustainable to make a game that sees half the player base go away because something that could be fixed isn't. What works for board games doesn't always work with collectable games and miniatures games that need more effort to look after.

I agree, I think X-Wing suffered for far to long under the old approach that fixed problems with upgrade cards, "silver bullets", as often times by the time the new wave was released players were fielding the new wave of broken, the new version was just system shock on the players left. The app/errata could slow down the loss of players and smaller incremental changes to cards and rules could have been introduced slowly. At some point the players would have been wanting a new version and the conversion would have kept far more players.

I don't think Armada has had the problem of needing a card to fix another card yet the way X Wing did. the only thing that comes close is Strategic Adviser but lately I'm viewing this card as a crutch and have stopped using it in my fleets as it prevents me from coming up with better tactics. 

 

one of the funniest things you made me think of when you mentioned Stagnation, right before X Wing 2.0 was announced the game was always growing tournaments were getting bigger despite all the problems within the game. Stagnation was something that only players who could not fly new lists or use different tactics would suffer from. Something I had thought that right before 1.0 was axed it seemed like FFG had finally gotten the game right. some things still persist but gone were the days I would go to a tournament and play 6 swiss rounds against the same 2-3 lists. I feel 2.0 has brought that back. but that is just my experience  

Stagnation in Armada comes from FFG not giving us new ships or any news for i don't even remember how long. not having available stock for shops to sell unless they were Victory class star destroyers (at least in OZ). Not having core sets was the greatest crime. how can a game grow if you dont even have core set to sell??? Gamers will come and go from a game system but without stock to sell to new players your group not get any new blood and will die of natural causes 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, X Wing Nut said:

Yeah NO. FFG cant even make a descent X Wing app what make you think they will do a good job for Armada?

Ryan Kingston web builder works great on my Tablet never had a problem with it because there is nothing complicated about it. its the reason why most people use YASB for X Wing instead of the app fast and simple 

Web apps require the web: I'd love to have an app to doodle on fleets while flying coast to coast. And while i think the Kingston website is great on my computer, I find it's too big / too much white space for convenient use on my iPad.

 

As for FFG: I don't play X-Wing. But there are a great many skilled iOS developers. It's just a matter of will on FFG's part to make a great app.

Edited by ShoutingMan

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I don't think FFG should spend a cent on building an app - that's not their core business.

There are plenty of enthusiastic fans out there who will create and maintain a fleet builder and do it for effectively nothing (thanks BTW! Us non-programming nerds appreciate it).

If FFG just put out a page every so often that said "Sensor Teams now cost 3, Advanced Projectors let you redirect 1 damage to each shield when facing Xi7s, Commander Leia costs 28, and the Assault Frigate can now take Ion Cannons" then the fan-dom would update the fleet builders PDQ.

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Card formatting idea: Put half of the ship details on a good old standard size card and the other half on a second. They can sit side by side to create a "full card". You could even use the idea of having 4 combinations of each card face to make 4 different ship types. Finding ways to store and protect those tarot sized cards is just terrible. More so in Australia where half the products aren't available.

I also think X-Wing doing away with those tiny cards and making all the cards one size is good.

21 hours ago, X Wing Nut said:

... I feel 2.0 has brought that back. but that is just my experience  ....

I loved the idea of the fast play cards where you could just create a deck of them and deal each player 3 or 4 and play, sadly it just didn't work that way.

I think you could work out something similar for Armada, but that is probably a whole new thread. But having a compromise where players get the fleet they are dealt can pose interesting challenges. I sometimes feel sad that when you look at the fleet in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi you see X-Wings and Nebulons, but the game just doesn't reflect this.

22 hours ago, X Wing Nut said:

...not having available stock for shops to sell unless they were Victory class star destroyers (at least in OZ)....

I ordered my stuff from Combat Company, they worked out a payment plan where I could order things and pay it off before it came in. However, I missed the past 2 waves and finding those ships is just hard. Games Cube, Combat Company and Games Empire all have bits of the puzzle. 

Legion has monthly releases, so FFG is proving they can make an aggressive release schedule, even if they went quarterly that would be 6 times the effort we see now. Maybe when the Clone Wars Armada comes out and you get a few extra people playing?

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5 hours ago, ShoutingMan said:

Web apps require the web: I'd love to have an app to doodle on fleets while flying coast to coast. And while i think the Kingston website is great on my computer, I find it's too big / too much white space for convenient use on my iPad.

 

As for FFG: I don't play X-Wing. But there are a great many skilled iOS developers. It's just a matter of will on FFG's part to make a great app.

maybe we should put the call out there for some one in the community to make one for us. If I had the skill I would do it but Im not there yet.

Go have a look at the FFG X Wing app and you will see they are not good hands to leave this request in.

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56 minutes ago, Amanal said:

Card formatting idea: Put half of the ship details on a good old standard size card and the other half on a second. They can sit side by side to create a "full card". You could even use the idea of having 4 combinations of each card face to make 4 different ship types. Finding ways to store and protect those tarot sized cards is just terrible. More so in Australia where half the products aren't available.

they did 2 ship cards for one ship in X Wing epic and it was a pain in the butt. just more stuff to carry and keep track of 

 

56 minutes ago, Amanal said:

I also think X-Wing doing away with those tiny cards and making all the cards one size is good.

I dont think you play X Wing one of the biggest troubles with the new cards all being the same size is they take up a lot of table space. the worse ones are the duel sided ones. ive seen some payers who's ships are the same with the same upgrade cards that do not have charges or need flipping stack them all in one sleeve only taking them out if an opponent needs to read one. but most of the time players carry a print out any way and use that as the references to there list YASB is good for that.  the cards are only there because rules need them to be but many of us just work off printouts

56 minutes ago, Amanal said:

I loved the idea of the fast play cards where you could just create a deck of them and deal each player 3 or 4 and play, sadly it just didn't work that way.

they are only good for casual fun as the ships are rarely built optimally or with things you would use. They can be a kinda teaching  aid but can also be a bad way to teach, "what do you mean Fen cant have Afterburners in a tournament it comes i his pack and I can play it in Quick build. 

56 minutes ago, Amanal said:

 I sometimes feel sad that when you look at the fleet in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi you see X-Wings and Nebulons, but the game just doesn't reflect this.

I feel the same but I dont know if you could fix this as in the example of X Wings if they were always the best ship then FFG would never sell another Squadron pack as those Squadrons will always be not as good as a X Wing 

56 minutes ago, Amanal said:

 Legion has monthly releases, so FFG is proving they can make an aggressive release schedule, even if they went quarterly that would be 6 times the effort we see now. Maybe when the Clone Wars Armada comes out and you get a few extra people playing?

The aggressive release's is to try to take business from GW catching as many 40K players as they can. dont know if its working tho as at least in vic not a lot of people play it in stores that I have seen. Armada has no real competitor in its space and i think that is why FFG has been treating it as the forgotten child for so long. there focus to push Legion and X Wing 2.0 has been the biggest problem this game has faced. Lets hope that the dark days have come to an end 

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