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Alpha Kenny Buddy

Is Fat Han + Jake underpowered?

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So the results from the Denver System Open are in. Not a single Fat Han + Jake two ship build in the top 32. 

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/583

Since we have an 18 page thread based on a sample size of exactly one System Open, surely we should now also discuss how that build in underpowered using the exact same sample size of one. 

So how do we help this super obvious easy to fly list that apparently steam rolls through everyone? Maybe a drop in points?

 

 

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23 hours ago, svelok said:

Inert Han has been in the top cut of every system open since the build was enabled by FFG.

There is literally a single Han in the top cut, and its a semi slim one with Lando in another Falcon. 

 

But yeah please don't let me interrupt the ****** of banning all lists that aren't throwing red dice piew piew level of complexity. 

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8 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

So the results from the Denver System Open are in. Not a single Fat Han + Jake two ship build in the top 32. 

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/583

Since we have an 18 page thread based on a sample size of exactly one System Open, surely we should now also discuss how that build in underpowered using the exact same sample size of one. 

So how do we help this super obvious easy to fly list that apparently steam rolls through everyone? Maybe a drop in points?

 

 

I suggest rereading that thread before jumping to the *opposite* conclusion of why that thread wants to change how it works?

(Hint: it's not because of its win percentage...)

 

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Posted (edited)

Get out of here and take your "Oh, I've got full board knowledge and infinite regen and it doesn't matter where my arc points so I guess I just win unless you abuse the only mechanic I can't take full advantage of" list with you.

The list is a filthy, degenerate mess of NPE mechanics that were deliberately removed from the game between editions. It is literally the reincarnation of the exact list which started First Edition down the path that ultimately led to Jumpmasters and Miranda. The list that was, ultimately, the very reason we even have a Second Edition.

Much like Dash+Roark (aka PS11 alpha) and Triple Upsilons (aka Torpedo Scouts) who also reincarnated supposedly defunct first edition archetypes, the results it gets at this point are entirely irrelevant.

Edited by DR4CO

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1 hour ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

So the results from the Denver System Open are in. Not a single Fat Han + Jake two ship build in the top 32. 

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/583

Since we have an 18 page thread based on a sample size of exactly one System Open, surely we should now also discuss how that build in underpowered using the exact same sample size of one. 

So how do we help this super obvious easy to fly list that apparently steam rolls through everyone? Maybe a drop in points? 

2

Can you do me a favor and count how often it was mentioned in that thread that the performance does not matter for it to be an NPE and to require a change?

That would be the only way for me to ever remotely care about your opinion.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, bobafett1228 said:

if you ion fat-han then he can only be in 2 places. (ion 1-straight or inertial dampeners)

If you can't shoot at Han, then Ion doesnt matter. 

Alpha Kenny Buddy is amongst a select few that fails to comprehend the gist of Boom Owls discussion.

People don't care about Fat Han, people care about the interaction of the Crew, (Kanan & R2), and Inertial Dampners. I literally cannot make it simpler or easier for you to understand. 

Edited by Archangelspiv

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1 minute ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

I'm always up for a Vasal game if you want to prove Hans brokenness. I'll even let you pick from several lists of mine what should I fly. 

ironically, your try to demonstrate your ability in this game demonstrated that you do not understand this game very well.

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1 minute ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

Then explain it to me like I'm five years old. 

 

28 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Can you do me a favor and count how often it was mentioned in that thread that the performance does not matter for it to be an NPE and to require a change?

That would be the only way for me to ever remotely care about your opinion.

 

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Just lost to Han Jake in the Top8 cut of System Open Hannover.

Worst playing experience of the weakend after 8 wonderful games of Xwing (that i won). 

Was very close in the end, but didnt feel good to play against.

He played it well and is a very good player, but playing a dancing Jedi list vs that Han feels so crippled.

I dunno if he went on or finished top4 as i am riding home now. 

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

 

 

But competitive performance is the only discussion relevant. If you are flying casually down at the local club with some friends, just tell them to not be a **** and not fly a meta list. 

Unless I'm practicing for a tournament in which case I even inform my opponent I brought a meta list, I use casual nights to try out new stuff. 

So in summary. 

Fat Han is performing like the good list that it is but is not overpowering. And if you feel it's a NEP just tell your mates to not bring them casually. 

 

So where the problem?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

So where the problem?

You can't possibly be asking this question in an honest way, not after 18 pages full of answers. At least it answers my question.

edit: "good faith" was the expression I was looking for. As long as you do not demonstrate an ability for a good faith discussion I won't interact with you. Which - naturally - includes ignoring your puny points.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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8 minutes ago, Rangor said:

Just lost to Han Jake in the Top8 cut of System Open Hannover.

Worst playing experience of the weakend after 8 wonderful games of Xwing (that i won). 

Was very close in the end, but didnt feel good to play against.

He played it well and is a very good player, but playing a dancing Jedi list vs that Han feels so crippled.

I dunno if he went on or finished top4 as i am riding home now. 

Yes, exactly this was my experience at a HST.  A bunch of great games then a horrible game against Han.  He has to go.

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13 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

But competitive performance is the only discussion relevant. If you are flying casually down at the local club with some friends, just tell them to not be a **** and not fly a meta list. 

Unless I'm practicing for a tournament in which case I even inform my opponent I brought a meta list, I use casual nights to try out new stuff. 

So in summary. 

Fat Han is performing like the good list that it is but is not overpowering. And if you feel it's a NEP just tell your mates to not bring them casually. 

 

So where the problem?

How many times can one person demonstrate how much they lack the intelligence to understand the discussion? The main discussion, not this poor excuse at trolling. 

IT
IS
NOT
ABOUT
*******
HAN

FFS...........

This is where it should be mandatory to have your age on these forums, it's like talking to a child.

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1 minute ago, Archangelspiv said:

How many times can one person demonstrate how much they lack the intelligence to understand the discussion? The main discussion, not this poor excuse at trolling.

 

I want to use this moment to advertise the usage of the ignore fu... oh, wrong thread! Or is it?

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12 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

But competitive performance is the only discussion relevant. If you are flying casually down at the local club with some friends, just tell them to not be a **** and not fly a meta list. 

Unless I'm practicing for a tournament in which case I even inform my opponent I brought a meta list, I use casual nights to try out new stuff. 

So in summary. 

Fat Han is performing like the good list that it is but is not overpowering. And if you feel it's a NEP just tell your mates to not bring them casually. 

 

So where the problem?

If he gets popular Meta will be limited to a few beefy lists.

Just like TLT limited list building options in 1.0, if your list relies at all on movement or outplaying your opponent, it is extremly vulnerable to the Han List. 

I loved 2.0 so far cause a lot of it is about flying.

 

But as the Han Jake player himself said, this list is so easy to fly and it is so tough to fly against it.

I believe him, cause he is a very good well known player in Europe.

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22 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

 

edit: "good faith" was the expression I was looking for. As long as you do not demonstrate an ability for a good faith discussion I won't interact with you. Which - naturally - includes ignoring your puny points.

Whatever makes you feel most smug I guess. 

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6 minutes ago, Rangor said:

If he gets popular Meta will be limited to a few beefy lists.

Just like TLT limited list building options in 1.0, if your list relies at all on movement or outplaying your opponent, it is extremly vulnerable to the Han List. 

I loved 2.0 so far cause a lot of it is about flying.

 

But as the Han Jake player himself said, this list is so easy to fly and it is so tough to fly against it.

I believe him, cause he is a very good well known player in Europe.

But thats the point. The only popular lists are the ones that are overperforming, especially when overperforming with a player of average skill level. Fat Han is not overperforming. 

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