Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
bern1106

**SPOILERS** Wages of Sin

Recommended Posts

Unfortunately, I've been wearing my confused head for a couple of weeks. I have a question about this card.

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/arkhamhorror/arkham-horror-the-card-game/_/the-circle-undone/the-wages-of-sin/unfinished-business-r1698

Well, all 6 of them actually. I presume you can trash them normally, using regular weapons or the Spectral Web, but I believe that this isn't banishing them . Now, can you pull them around with you face down in your threat area, visit  the named location, discover all the clues then banish them.

Simply put, can you do one or the other. I assume the location banishing is to get VP, as the other method would just confine it to purgatory again (no VP).

Bern (in over his head).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. You kill the Heretic like an other enemy.

2. instead of discarding it, you have to flip the card and do whatever stands on the other side (Unfinished Business).

3. The other side states exactly what you have to do to „banish“ the card, e.g. go to a specific location and successfully perform a specific action (if no clues are on the location).

4. As soon as you banished the ghost, you resolve the text below which adds it to the victory display.

I hope this clears it up. At least that‘s how I interpret these cards. I don‘t see any other way to get rid of them instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other way, I thought was to pay a clue to flip it to the other side. Then you put them in your threat area, with the non enemy side visible. That way you know where to go and avoid fighting it/ taking damage. At the end of the round you either take a horror to keep it that way or turn it back to the enemy side, meaning you'd have to play another clue to pacify it again. When you clear the appropriate location of clues, regardless wether you've fought the heretic or not, you take the action and banish it.

   I'm fairly sure if you only defeat it with damage it's removed from the game, but escapes at the end as the banishment text hasn't been triggered. Unless, as you say, you complete the banishment text. I think you can avoid wasting actions to fight it, but the rules aren't clear on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Astrophil is correct.

1.  Defeat the heretic like any other enemy (it is a Geist, so you can use the Spectral Web if you have it).
2.  instead of placing the card in the discard pile  or victory display, flip it and resolve the Unfinished business side.   The card will instruct you how to banish the geist.  The Unfinished Business remains in your threat area in most cases, triggering its effect when applicable.
3.  After completing the banish text, the Unfinished Business card goes in the victory display.

The spend 1 clue to parley and flip the card is to allow you to "scout" the Unfinished Business cards, ideally during Agenda 1, Act 2.  In this situation the Heretic enemies will be Aloof unless you flip the location.   You can figure out where you need to go to banish each heretic and what you will need to do.   This is what the parley ability is primarily for.    I agree that in general, this isnt very useful and it's better to just use the clues to murder them with Spectral Web.  I tend to have not had a lot of time in Agenda 1 Act 2 to be able to make good use of the planning options presented by the Parley ability.    There are two special cases, the heretics: Come Join Us and Keziah Promised, We Cannot Die.    For Come Join Us, the Parley ability is actually very useful, allowing you to effectively defeat the heretic by spending only a single clue.  You'll then have to Parley it again with more clues after it attacks you in order to banish it.  Keziah Promised, We Cannot Die, is much worse if you try to Parley it,  it gets a free attack on you and your Parley has no other effect,  you still must defeat it to resolve the Unfinished Business text (giving it ANOTHER free attack on you!) and then defeat it again to banish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bern1106 said:

The other way, I thought was to pay a clue to flip it to the other side. Then you put them in your threat area, with the non enemy side visible.

I see. The problem here is:

Quote

[Free] Spend 1 clue: Parley. Look at Heretic’s other side (without resolving its text).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bern1106 said:

I'm fairly sure if you only defeat it with damage it's removed from the game, …

And, unfortunately, you couldn‘t do this because of:

Quote

Forced – After Heretic is defeated: Flip it over and resolve the text on its other side.

 

Edited by Astrophil84

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What confused me is. I defeat the heretic, ok I'm good with that, it stays in my threat area even though it's defeated, flip side with the text. Now, what happens if I can't pay the cost to keep it that way at the end of the round. 

Forced – At the end of the round: You must either take 1 horror or flip this card back to its enemy side.  So what happens, despite it being defeated, it will still attack during the enemy phase? Or is this part only directed at the would be scanning phase. I know I'm missing something simple...   This is assuming they are no longer aloof.

Edited by bern1106

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Astrophil84 said:

I see. The problem here is:

 

Ah! It's ok, light has dawned. **** medication put a haze over logic. Cheers people, apologies for bothering with a simple conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

refer to page 23 for the timing windows.   So for example, the heretic Bring me to him...  resolves this way:

1.   Heretic is defeated and flips.  Presumably during phase II (Investigation phase)
2.  Phase III (enemy phase) happens, the Heretic is flipped to its unfinished business side so they do not attack.
3.  Phase IV (upkeep phase) happens,   4.6 is "end of the round".   At this point if you can't or don't want to pay the horror for Bring me to him... then the heretic flips back over to its enemy side.   If the heretic isn't dealt with again before the enemy phase on the next turn it will attack as normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, awp832 said:

refer to page 23 for the timing windows.   So for example, the heretic Bring me to him...  resolves this way:

1.   Heretic is defeated and flips.  Presumably during phase II (Investigation phase)
2.  Phase III (enemy phase) happens, the Heretic is flipped to its unfinished business side so they do not attack.
3.  Phase IV (upkeep phase) happens,   4.6 is "end of the round".   At this point if you can't or don't want to pay the horror for Bring me to him... then the heretic flips back over to its enemy side.   If the heretic isn't dealt with again before the enemy phase on the next turn it will attack as normal.

Does his mean defeating it again or just using a clue to turn it over, I guess either is ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it means defeating it again (you could also evade it, preventing it from attacking or otherwise exhaust it, of course)  Using a clue to turn it over has no effect on whether the enemy will attack or not during the enemy phase.    Heretics will still attack if you have used their Parley ability to spend 1 clue to scout them.

Edited by awp832

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens to an Unfinished Business card in a players threat area if that investigator resigns or is defeated?  Does it get discarded?  Or flip back over into an enemy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good question.   I don't see any reason why the Heretic would not be placed in the encounter discard pile.  So the next logical questions is:  what happens if the encounter discard pile gets shuffled?   My only guess is that the Heretic will be shuffled in with the rest of the cards,  with the unfinished business side being the "card back"  and the enemy side being the card being facedown after the shuffling is complete.   Obviously, because of the different card back, you would be able to see this coming, which is incredibly unusual.  But I've gone over the rules and I can't see any reason why you wouldn't do this.  As far as I can tell:

1.   The Heretic cards are part of the encounter deck (even though they are set-aside during setup)
2.  The Heretic cards are owned and controlled by the encounter deck,  not by any investigator.
3.   These cards are still controlled by the encounter deck when flipped to their Unfinished Business side.
4.  When a player is eliminated (by resignation or by being defeated) cards in their play area that are controlled by the encounter deck are placed in the encounter deck discard pile, face up.
5.   When the encounter deck discard pile runs out of cards, it is shuffled to form a new encounter deck.

If there's a flaw in my logic someone can feel free to point it out.   But this seems to be the case to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cards cannot be shuffled into the encounter deck (or placed in the encounter discard pile) if they don't have an encounter card back. If you have Unfinished Business and are eliminated, that card is removed from the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We house-ruled it that the card gets attached to the location where the investigator was eliminated (either by defeat or resignation).  Then, at the end of the round, since the Forced cost could not be paid, the card would flip back over and turn into an enemy again.  I'm certain this is not the actual rule, but any other interpretation makes the scenario unwinnable.

In my case, It turned out to not matter, since all the other investigators were shortly thereafter defeated or resigned as well, but I was curious if this is a "bug" in the scenario or what the official rules answer would be in case it comes up again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Faranim said:

We house-ruled it that the card gets attached to the location where the investigator was eliminated (either by defeat or resignation).  Then, at the end of the round, since the Forced cost could not be paid, the card would flip back over and turn into an enemy again.  I'm certain this is not the actual rule, but any other interpretation makes the scenario unwinnable.

In my case, It turned out to not matter, since all the other investigators were shortly thereafter defeated or resigned as well, but I was curious if this is a "bug" in the scenario or what the official rules answer would be in case it comes up again.

That sounds reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

For anyone else looking up this questions, there was errata-ed in September 2019. Just what Faranim suggested; When a investigator resigns or is eliminated, Unfinished Business reverts to a monster and is drops off to the location.

Page 4 of the FAQ:
(v1.6) Unfinished Business (Bring me to him…) ( 178b)
(v1.6) Unfinished Business (Burn…let it burn…) ( 178b)
(v1.6) Unfinished Business (They stole it from me…) ( 178b)
(v1.6) Unfinished Business (My bones…) ( 178b)
This card’s first ability should read: “Keep this card in your threat area (this side faceup). If you are eliminated, flip it over.”

Edited by manyallaluk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...