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direweasel

First try with Separatists

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Posted (edited)

I'm a somewhat more casual player generally, but would like some constructive criticism on tweaks to this list that I might be missing.  It's my first time with Seperatists, and I don't really know what I'm doing.  I've played around with them a little on Fly Casual and I sort of at least get the concept of the power of shared Calculates in large-ish numbers.

What's non-negotiable on the list is that it needs to be Darth Maul and a mini-swarm of Vultures.  I own 5 of them total, but the list as it is now, features 4.  Would be willing to go 3, 4, or 5, although 5 would not leave a ton of wiggle room.  I also wanted to try out all the new toys, so that's why you see the Discord Missiles, Shell Charges, and Probe Droids.  Would be willing to drop or modify those if convinced of the reasoning for it.

Anyway, without further ado, here is my list.  Thank you for your help:

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (3)
DRK-1 Probe Droids (6)
Scimitar (4)
Kraken (10)

Precise Hunter (26)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Precise Hunter (26)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Precise Hunter (26)
Discord Missiles (6)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Edited by direweasel

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Posted (edited)

This list isn't bad, and worth trying. You might find it hard to get much value from the bullseye, but if you can, rerolls are great for the droids. 

Scimitar isn't amazing on Maul (better fit for dooku since he has better options to cloak), but if you want probe droids, the jam action you get is nice. 

I believe in trying and experiencing yourself what works and what doesn't, but if you want a more optimized list, this is what I've landed on after 15+ CIS games:

Maul +5

(65) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) Hate
(10) Kraken
(2) Tractor Beam
Points: 80

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

Total points: 200

 

Tractor beam is mainly just a points filler, but can work nicely in specific situations due to the double tap. You can also get one discord missile for the 2 point difference instead (it's awesome vs other swarms, but esc is generally strictly better), or 2 munition failsafes. In general you want Grievous on Maul, but with this list you want both kraken and hate more in my opinion. A mini swarm is just so much more powerful when it can have a minimum of 3 calcs regardless of whether they do red moves or bump. Something like Dooku crew and Grievous and no kraken is definitely playable though. 

Droids want numbers, so fitting in as many as possible should be a priority. 

The way this list works is that your opponent should be punished by whatever decision he makes when choosing targets. A roaming double tapping maul is pretty annoying, but a 5 ship swarm is also very dangerous. Have maul hop around to get as many arcs as possible while staying range 3 for kraken. 

The correct move for your opponent is often to leave maul and focus on the swarm first, that way he can only double tap every 3 or so rounds because of force depletion. Maul gets better when he's getting shot at for the same reason, so it's a half decent end game ship, but he'll melt really quickly when focused. 

 

Edited by Tk421doyouloveme

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Posted (edited)

Those are totally legitimate points.  Thank you for your thoughtful response. 

I am thinking you're right about the bullseye arc thing, I'm not sure I'd get the return on investment from those precise hunters.  I could at the very least, downgrade those to separatist drones and save 12 points for use elsewhere, and not lose any initiative.  My original thought was that I could use the barrel roll/calculate action to help get bullseyes more often, but that's still iffy, leaves me stressed every time I do it, and makes it that much harder to stay in formation.

Your list is probably better than mine, and that's likely similar to where I'll end up, but I think for my first few runs at least, I want to try out the discord missiles and probe droids and such.  As you say, the only way to know is to try things out.   And Tractor Beam is an excellent idea on Maul too, as you say, works well with his pilot ability.

The tactical advice is helpful too.  I think we are both roughly on the same page as to how to fly these effectively.

By the way, question re: Scimitar.  It says "After the Place Forces Step, you may cloak."  Since cloaking for that card is typically a red action, does using that ability give the ship a stress token?  I'm thinking not, since it doesn't say "action", that it's just a free thing, but worth clarifying.

Thanks very much!

 

Edited by direweasel

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Sounds good! Discord missiles are fun as **** when you launch them right into the middle of a tie swarm. 

Regarding barrel rolling, using it to link a calculate can be huge, just try your best to plan well for the round after. Ideally you set up to 2 turn and have arcs to stay calculated. 

You're right that because the scimitar text doesn't say "action", it doesn't get a stress in the place forces step. "cloaking" is simply assigning a cloak token. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, direweasel said:

I'm a somewhat more casual player generally, but would like some constructive criticism on tweaks to this list that I might be missing.  It's my first time with Seperatists, and I don't really know what I'm doing.  I've played around with them a little on Fly Casual and I sort of at least get the concept of the power of shared Calculates in large-ish numbers.

What's non-negotiable on the list is that it needs to be Darth Maul and a mini-swarm of Vultures.  I own 5 of them total, but the list as it is now, features 4.  Would be willing to go 3, 4, or 5, although 5 would not leave a ton of wiggle room.  I also wanted to try out all the new toys, so that's why you see the Discord Missiles, Shell Charges, and Probe Droids.  Would be willing to drop or modify those if convinced of the reasoning for it.

Anyway, without further ado, here is my list.  Thank you for your help:

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (3)
DRK-1 Probe Droids (6)
Scimitar (4)
Kraken (10)

Precise Hunter (26)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Precise Hunter (26)
Energy-Shell Charges (4)

Precise Hunter (26)
Discord Missiles (6)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Its a pretty good list. I know this is your first separatist try, so like all of us, you plop Maul on the table asap. Think about Dooku over Maul though. He is tougher to kill thanks to his ability able to cloak/decloak, and works better with scimitar. Maul can forgo scimitar and you would get much better use out of grevious crew for Maul.

You will also find that the cheaper droids just work better, allowing points for your Sith to get Palpatine crew or Dooku crew, etc.

My brother ran a Dooku with probe, scim,kraken,hate,palpatine,grevious along with 4 trade drones with energy shells. Was tough.

Edited by wurms

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, wurms said:

Its a pretty good list. I know this is your first separatist try, so like all of us, you plop Maul on the table asap. Think about Dooku over Maul though. He is tougher to kill thanks to his ability able to cloak/decloak, and works better with scimitar. Maul can forgo scimitar and you would get much better use out of grevious crew for Maul.

You will also find that the cheaper droids just work better, allowing points for your Sith to get Palpatine crew or Dooku crew, etc.

My brother ran a Dooku with probe, scim,kraken,hate,palpatine,grevious along with 4 trade drones with energy shells. Was tough.

 

Yes, Darth Maul is pretty much THE reason I bought into separatists, so there's no way he's not in the first list.  But once I've gotten used to it and the new has worn off, I definitely do think Dooku has a very compelling ability, so I'm sure I'll give that a try too.  And those extra points will certainly be nice too.  :)

Thank you for the helpful reply!

Edited by direweasel

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Imo, Maul needs PerCo for the double tap. Hate is great, but not MANDATORY. Everything else seems like fluff. Aside from that, you can do basically whatever you want with Vultures except 

PerCo?  Perceptive Copilot?  Why?  Why would I do focus actions when I have force tokens?  I figure most of his actions will be target locks, cloaks, and jams - is that wrong?

And yes, most of the rest of it is fluff - I want to try out the new toys.  :)

 

...also I'm pretty sure you didn't finish that last thought.  Or was it meant to be a cliff hanger?  😏

 

Edited by direweasel

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Ive been having good success with this list (stolen from _Underscore_).

 

Darth balls

(65) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(9) Count Dooku
(3) Hate
Points: 80

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

Total points: 200

 

I too got into Separatists thanks to a love of Maul. This maul hits like a truck, but will melt to sustained fire. If you overspend your force and dont get shot maul suffers, but that does also mean they arent shooting your most expensive ship :)

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On 4/26/2019 at 3:09 PM, direweasel said:

PerCo?  Perceptive Copilot?  Why?  Why would I do focus actions when I have force tokens?  I figure most of his actions will be target locks, cloaks, and jams - is that wrong?

And yes, most of the rest of it is fluff - I want to try out the new toys.  :)

 

...also I'm pretty sure you didn't finish that last thought.  Or was it meant to be a cliff hanger?  😏

 

PerCo because you want to save the Force to keep doing double taps every turn - PerCo gives full focus mods on both shots while still allowing you to keep up your Force pool for subsequent turns.

I guess I didn't finish the last thought lol...but I can't remember what it would have been so...

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5 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

PerCo because you want to save the Force to keep doing double taps every turn - PerCo gives full focus mods on both shots while still allowing you to keep up your Force pool for subsequent turns.

I guess I didn't finish the last thought lol...but I can't remember what it would have been so...

I think focus action generally is good on Maul, and two of them is sweet, but a lot of things would be a higher priority to fit in than perceptive (I assume we're talking double infiltrators here, maul+vultures can't really run perceptive). 

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3 hours ago, nurglez said:

Ive been having good success with this list (stolen from _Underscore_).

 

Darth balls

(65) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(9) Count Dooku
(3) Hate
Points: 80

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(4) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

Total points: 200

 

I too got into Separatists thanks to a love of Maul. This maul hits like a truck, but will melt to sustained fire. If you overspend your force and dont get shot maul suffers, but that does also mean they arent shooting your most expensive ship :)

 

It seems like Dooku crew would be a bad pairing with Maul, since it's not likely that he will usually not have all his force tokens active, and hence be unable to use it.  Am I missing something?  I would think it would be better to have Kraken, to save and stack those calculate tokens.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The secret here, is hate. It keeps you topped up if they are shooting you  and if they dont then they aren't shooting at an 80 point ship.

 

When being shot at by a higher initiative ship you can either Dooku them or yourself. When full you can either Dooku one of your attacks or a droids (or both if you get shot at after you've shot).

 

Example. 

Fenn shoots maul with 3 force, gets 5 hits (r1 ouch). I roll an eyeball. Spend a force, spend Grevious, lose 3 shields. Force now full.

Attack back. Dooku a crit, roll crit hit hit eyeball, sigh and spend a force.

 

 

Edited by nurglez

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