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Vulcan646

Story Discussion - Tactical Maneuvers

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Just now, phillos said:

While they are clearly kicking the Cranes and Unicorn's butts (and all the clans respect their military might) in the story it feels like they concentrate on the incidents where the other clans come out on top against the Lion in the fictions almost always.  That makes it feel like the Lion are always losing even though most of the time they are winning.   I think it's easily fixed.  I've been wanting more low level military POVs from the Lion to help capture those sorts of stories and also communicate why a Lion would be proud.  What is it they treasure about their clan and their culture?  I think there's a wealth of meat on the bones for Lion stories that haven't been told yet without pushing the narrative further.  I like Toturi, but it feels like he steals much of their screen time unfortunately.  A Lion RPG supplement would help greatly as well.  I hope that comes sooner rather than later considering I feel like it's the clan least explored right now in the new continuity.

I think the clear hole in the fictions for the Lion is magnified by their lack of competitive performance in the card game.  Hopefully that's fixed now that their clan pack as been announced.  They have been getting a flood of new card support. 

In terms of a Lion RPG supplemental product, I suspect one will be coming down the pipe in the next 1 to 2 years

FFG seems to be pairing 1 major clan, 1 minor clan, and one deep delve into an aspect of Rokugan with each supplemental product release so far.

Emerald Empire: General Info On Rokugan + Imperial Family Clan Info + Fox Minor Clan Info

Shadowlands: Info On The Shadowlands + Crab Clan Info + Falcon Minor Clan Info

Courts Of Stone: Info On Rokugani Politics/Diplomacy + Crane Clan Info + Deer Minor Clan Info

The Lion one will likely come either in the middle or the end of the current supplemental product run.

It will probably be paired with a deep dive into Rokugani warfare.

As to the minor clan paired with them who knows.

 

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41 minutes ago, Vulcan646 said:

In terms of a Lion RPG supplemental product, I suspect one will be coming down the pipe in the next 1 to 2 years

FFG seems to be pairing 1 major clan, 1 minor clan, and one deep delve into an aspect of Rokugan with each supplemental product release so far.

Emerald Empire: General Info On Rokugan + Imperial Family Clan Info + Fox Minor Clan Info

Shadowlands: Info On The Shadowlands + Crab Clan Info + Falcon Minor Clan Info

Courts Of Stone: Info On Rokugani Politics/Diplomacy + Crane Clan Info + Deer Minor Clan Info

The Lion one will likely come either in the middle or the end of the current supplemental product run.

It will probably be paired with a deep dive into Rokugani warfare.

As to the minor clan paired with them who knows.

 

To correct a common misapprehension.  Emerald Empire does not include Fox Minor Clan Info.  It includes a school for playing a part-spirit kitsune shapeshifter, rather than a member of the Kitsune family.

In terms of which minor clan in the Warfare (Lion) book, Emerald Empire says that "Only the Hare, Falcon, Dragonfly, and Mantis Clans have sizeable forces,".  Of those, Mantis and Falcon are already detailed, and if Dragonfly don't end up in the Dragon book I'll be mightily surprised.  This would suggest that the Hare Clan, being the only largely militaristic Minor Clan is in the Lion book.

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13 hours ago, Matsu Kenshin said:

 I FEEL that the Lion have not won anything in the story. 

And I am not sure why that is.

Probably because the main Lion character, Toturi, has been portrayed as somewhat isolated from his Clan since his first appearance.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

In terms of which minor clan in the Warfare (Lion) book, Emerald Empire says that "Only the Hare, Falcon, Dragonfly, and Mantis Clans have sizeable forces,".  Of those, Mantis and Falcon are already detailed, and if Dragonfly don't end up in the Dragon book I'll be mightily surprised.  This would suggest that the Hare Clan, being the only largely militaristic Minor Clan is in the Lion book.

Agreed, unless they choose to create a new one entirely. The Deer Clan is not, for example, a previously established one. 

It depends if they decide to re-do the Hare's destruction by the Scorpion and rebuiling in some fashion, which feels (since it was) like something more likely to be in a full adventure sourcebook like Dark Tides or Mask Of The Oni than as a brief chapter in someone else's sourcebook.

3 hours ago, Manchu said:

Probably because the main Lion character, Toturi, has been portrayed as somewhat isolated from his Clan since his first appearance.

This. It means anything Matsu Tsuko (for example) achieves feels a touch undercut, since she's at best bending the intent of her orders from her Clan Champion to do so.

And because he's become Emerald Champion, you get a lot of "Lion" fiction which is not really anything of the sort; Tiger Stalks His Prey, for example. 

 

 

To be fair, the Crane and Scorpion also have noticable rifts right at the top of the Clan, and within the ruling family rather than between clan families.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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8 hours ago, Manchu said:

Probably because the main Lion character, Toturi, has been portrayed as somewhat isolated from his Clan since his first appearance.

Bingo- and, as MagnusGrendel notes, he's also been used as a window on Imperial politics more often than on the state of the Lion Clan.

Moreover, his character development bits tend to be with his wife, who, again, legalities aside, is still essentially a Phoenix character- and one who is more than a little nervous about the Lion Clan as it relates to the Phoenix, and therefore not exactly a booster of the clan party line.

While the Lion are not alone in having rifts in their Clan's politics/makeup, there is a difference in how it's been presented- pretty much everybody else's situation is presented as having roughly equal or at least comparable amounts of power and support (Kachiko and Shoju, Hotaru and Kuwanan), while Toturi is pretty much on his own as far as the portrayal goes. Which isn't an awful dynamic, except that it makes the principal Lion character seem like he's not a "real" Lion in the context of the new story. While in point of fact he represents another side of the Lion from Tsuko, just as Kachiko and Shoju embody different aspects of the Scorpion, it's not as punctuated because Toturi's basically it.

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On 4/30/2019 at 10:59 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:

...

While the Lion are not alone in having rifts in their Clan's politics/makeup, there is a difference in how it's been presented- pretty much everybody else's situation is presented as having roughly equal or at least comparable amounts of power and support (Kachiko and Shoju, Hotaru and Kuwanan), while Toturi is pretty much on his own as far as the portrayal goes. ...

To be perfectly fair, the rift at the top of the Crane between Kuwanan and Hotaru at this point has no one supporting Kuwanan. And Kuwanan has no in clan power or out of clan power at all.  It is certainly not like the relationship of Kachiko and Shoju or Toturi and Tsuko, where both of the parties wield considerable power.  The big difference is that the story is not following Kuwanan with a sympathetic eye right now, so even though the family is divided, Kuwanan's part of the division is pretty much a non-entity at the moment, and where there has been Crane story, it has focused on aspects far away from the clan division  We haven't seen much of Hotaru or Kuwanan for quite a while, so we don't know what will happen with it.

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3 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

To be perfectly fair, the rift at the top of the Crane between Kuwanan and Hotaru at this point has no one supporting Kuwanan. And Kuwanan has no in clan power or out of clan power at all.  It is certainly not like the relationship of Kachiko and Shoju or Toturi and Tsuko, where both of the parties wield considerable power.  The big difference is that the story is not following Kuwanan with a sympathetic eye right now, so even though the family is divided, Kuwanan's part of the division is pretty much a non-entity at the moment, and where there has been Crane story, it has focused on aspects far away from the clan division  We haven't seen much of Hotaru or Kuwanan for quite a while, so we don't know what will happen with it.

The only power I see Kuwanan wielding at the moment is that he's the brother of the Clan Champion, and the son of the former Clan- and Emerald Champion; and that he kind-of, sort-of has an understanding with Matsu Tsuko. The latter probably doesn't even matter, outside of a very small clique, and the former doesn't really amount to much unless he starts actively looking for people dissatisfied with Hotaru's rule to support him.

I'd like to see the latter happen, actually; watching Kuwanan build his own support network inside the Clan could make for all sorts of political intrigue.

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1 minute ago, BayushiKojiro said:

Until Hotaru has a baby, Kuwanan has another power. He's the heir.

Trust the scorpion to point that out. 😬

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1 hour ago, JolOfNar said:

Trust the scorpion to point that out. 😬

Hey I've pointed it out plenty of times in the past as one of the major f-ups by Tsuko as the leverage he represented just walking out of her tent was massive.

That said we don't actually know what support he really has at this point because they haven't really done anything with him beyond appearing as a character in other people's stories.

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2 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

Hey I've pointed it out plenty of times in the past as one of the major f-ups by Tsuko as the leverage he represented just walking out of her tent was massive.

It was pointed out in the most recent fiction that the Emperor's edict against total war includes it being illegal to keep hostages unless a full scale war has been declared, which there is not between Lion and Crane.  While an Ikoma might 'fudge' that a bit, Matsu Tsuko is far too honorable to appreciate nuance in such matters.

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There's also the matter of the scroll which Shosuro Hametsu ordered Sadako to place in the Crane guesthouse where the late Satsume's belongings were being kept. It's really hard to say what that scroll contained, but there's a decent chance it somehow damns Kachiko (that guy *really* hates his sister) and with Hotaru's feelings towards Kachiko, it may lower her in the clan's eyes as well...or at least create a political opening Kuwanan can leverage against her. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

It was pointed out in the most recent fiction that the Emperor's edict against total war includes it being illegal to keep hostages unless a full scale war has been declared, which there is not between Lion and Crane.  While an Ikoma might 'fudge' that a bit, Matsu Tsuko is far too honorable to appreciate nuance in such matters.

Plus, there's a big difference between not allowing a guest, who is a minor diplomat that arrived at your court voluntarily, to leave, and holding the Clan Champion's Heir, who was dragged into your tent bruised, bloodied and tied up by a bunch of ronin.

Even if Tsuko were inclined to that sort of thing, that's a lot harder to argue any sort of pretext for...

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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