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4 destroyer droid models in the core set?

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I was just reading the description for the clone wars base set.  It looks like there are two wheeled and two shooting posed models in the base set.  Or am I reading this wrong?

 

 

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9 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

The clones used them enough in the animated series, but if they’re as effective as they look, maybe it would be too unfair for the game.

There was plenty of discussion over ion in X-Wing being too unfair to the CIS's vast droid armies. As it stands, it's just not a common enough weapon type to make a difference.

In Legion, from what I understand, Ion weapons aren't largely popular in the meta right now? Assuming the droid units are more susceptible to ion in some way, that obviously might see an uptick to help deal with their massive number of activations. Plus with the new ground vehicles coming out and being relatively cost effective, people might be more interested in ion for that reason as well?

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11 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Droid poppers are EMP grenades, not Ion. Subtle difference. 

If you look at how they used them and what damage they did they could've used normal grenades too for the same effect. The only advantage is that you don't damage the surroundings or endanger your own troops. Since this isn't possible in Legion there is no point in having them.

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48 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

If you look at how they used them and what damage they did they could've used normal grenades too for the same effect. The only advantage is that you don't damage the surroundings or endanger your own troops. Since this isn't possible in Legion there is no point in having them.

Agreed, unless they have some kind of effect like exhausting cards instead of doing damage. I also kinda doubt ion weapons will be different between droids and biologicals for game balance reasons.

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When it comes down to it, in regards to droid poppers, is there a reason to give it an effect different from the ion effect?  

Yes, in clone wars, droid poppers did a number on them, completely disabling them.  A t-7 ion disruptor completely disabled and destroyed an AT-DP.  Bossk has a dioxis grenade that is extremely and instantly lethal to sentients..

So clearly weapons that are extremely deadly to things on screen are less so in game.  

Droid poppers as a grenade Will work fine with the ion effect.   

If I were to do it, I would give it a white attack die.  Any crit results add an ion token - no damage.  Now, this is assuming that the droid trooper keyword has additional effects based on ion of course.   As a trooper squad can throw a grenade for each unit, you could completely shut something down vehicle wise.   Like most ion weapons, I'd make it a recover action weapon.   

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3 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Droid poppers are EMP grenades, not Ion. Subtle difference. 

I don’t think they ever mention emp. Where did you get that from?

Just curious, since we are talking about an animated show and the effect is drawn and open to artistic license.

Take a look at the Molevolence (the CIS war ship) they mentioned that it was an ion weapon, but the effect was the same as an emp.

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4 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

I don’t think they ever mention emp. Where did you get that from?

Just curious, since we are talking about an animated show and the effect is drawn and open to artistic license.

Take a look at the Molevolence (the CIS war ship) they mentioned that it was an ion weapon, but the effect was the same as an emp.

The official starwars.com databank does.

 

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1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

No problem, but I do agree, that from a certain point of view, there is no reason that droid poppers and ion weapons cannot and should not use the same effect that ions do.

The minor issue is that as far as I'm aware, (in Star Wars at least) EMP grenades should have no effect on biological targets, whereas Ion weapons are confirmed in canon to be capable of damaging biologics (T-7 Ion Disruptor rifle for instance, and the Jawa Ion Blaster apparently). 

I could still see droid poppers being handled as Ion weapons though, but I'm not convinced that Droids need even more drawbacks such as a weakness to Ion weapons than no surge white dice and AI. We've only see the stats for the B1s right now, other Droids might be more expensive and more capable. Especially since the effect Ion weapons seem to have on individual droids tends to be a complete shutdown, represented by the model be defeated by the attack. 

I could maybe see Ion weapons causing one additional wound if they cause any wounds, but that might affect the game balance too much.

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B1's seem like they're weak to everything, but have the advantage of being able to bring lots of them. One of your units gets ion? You still have 5 more. 

With droids and vehicles gaining prominence I wouldn't be surprised to see more ion, but I'm not sure that players would try to stick ion weapons to absolutely every unit. 

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2 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

Why would I take ion grenades and disable a unit when I can kill them with frags?

Perfectly valid for dealing with B1's. I suspect ion grenades would get more mileage against multi-wound models like destroyer droids or tanks. 

Frag grenades will still be awesome tho'. 

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4 hours ago, Staelwulf said:

Why would I take ion grenades and disable a unit when I can kill them with frags?

Because maybe you are trying to stop a vehicle, or large droid, with armour with lots of health that you can't destroy?

Because the enemy is trying to get to an objective?   Because you are splitting fire (say a sniper and spotter throwing a grenade to nearby)?   

Splitting fire to add suppression AND disable a large unit can decide a battle.   

There are numerous reasons to want to use ion grenades.  Sure for some droids, b1’s perhaps, the frags make sense.   But here is the thing, you won't always have perfect information in what you are fighting.   As more factions are added, and this is thinking more tournament style, you won't know what to face.   Frags may be ineffective against some units.

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44 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Because maybe you are trying to stop a vehicle, or large droid, with armour with lots of health that you can't destroy?

Because the enemy is trying to get to an objective?   Because you are splitting fire (say a sniper and spotter throwing a grenade to nearby)?   

Splitting fire to add suppression AND disable a large unit can decide a battle.   

There are numerous reasons to want to use ion grenades.  Sure for some droids, b1’s perhaps, the frags make sense.   But here is the thing, you won't always have perfect information in what you are fighting.   As more factions are added, and this is thinking more tournament style, you won't know what to face.   Frags may be ineffective against some units.

If droid troopers aren't immune to suppression (which I fully think will not be the case, but it is possible), the ability to completely shut down the unit is a big reason why I don't think they will be able to gain Ion tokens.

In my opinion, an Ion weapon which is capable of temporarily slowing down a large vehicle should "defeat" a droid for the remainder of the battle. As well, none of the Ion weapons are "Blast" which indicates they aren't area of effect weapons. During the battle of Hoth, the shot from the Ion cannon only affects the Star Destroyer it hits, despite passing relatively closely to the Rebel Transport and fighter escort. Why should the T-7 Ion snowtrooper or M-45 ion blaster behave differently?

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2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Because maybe you are trying to stop a vehicle, or large droid, with armour with lots of health that you can't destroy?

That's what impact grenades are for...

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1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

If droid troopers aren't immune to suppression (which I fully think will not be the case, but it is possible), the ability to completely shut down the unit is a big reason why I don't think they will be able to gain Ion tokens.

In my opinion, an Ion weapon which is capable of temporarily slowing down a large vehicle should "defeat" a droid for the remainder of the battle. As well, none of the Ion weapons are "Blast" which indicates they aren't area of effect weapons. During the battle of Hoth, the shot from the Ion cannon only affects the Star Destroyer it hits, despite passing relatively closely to the Rebel Transport and fighter escort. Why should the T-7 Ion snowtrooper or M-45 ion blaster behave differently?

I'm not sure where you are going with this..  I  never implied that ion weapons should be area effect weapons.   Legion doesn't have area of effect weapons apart from mines really.  Everything is only affecting a single unit, but that is a gaming effect more than anything.   Despite not having blast a grenade still explodes over an area, it is not represented exactly in game.  Neither are regular weapons.   They are all abstractions.   Unless you truly believe that every single die that is rolled represents a single pull of a trigger, you seem to be speaking with much hyperbole.   

Again while not directly spelled out in the game (intentionally for a relatively fast paced and simple mechanics) grenades don't work like their real life counterparts.   Their effect is to alter the attack pool with an additional effect at short range.   As some grenades add blast, others add impact, etc.    

But if your reading is grenades don't have “area effect” how come, if a grenade attack is successful, Units are removed, based on the defenders choice, even though they might not have been the closest to the grenade?  The reason; abstraction for a thematic game NOT a true simulation.  

Now, as to ion affecting a whole unit of, say six battle droids, how does that make any more or less sense that me having 1 model from a squad throw an concussion grenade and the rest fire blasters, giving the whole attack blast?  Again, it is an abstraction.   

My referencing the T7 was to show that a hand portable weapon took out a walker in, one or two shots at most, but game wise, it adds an ion token.  

Now, as to the effect of the droid trooper keyword, we know it WILL do something, as the clone trooper keyword allows the spending of another clone troopers’ green token.   We also know that ion effects ARE deeply ingrained in star wars lore, and have affected droids in the movies.  

It is logical to assume that ion WILL affect droid troopers in some way.   It could be something as simple and elegant as ‘when rolling defence dice, for each ion token the defender has, roll one fewer die’  This does the abstraction of the ion effect on droids, but will only ever affect one model at a time.   

It is very possible to have the gameplay and fluff coincide side by side.

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2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But here is the thing, you won't always have perfect information in what you are fighting.   As more factions are added, and this is thinking more tournament style, you won't know what to face.

And this is exactly the reason why you see noone pick ion weapons in tournament. They just get some DLT or impact grenades.

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1 minute ago, Staelwulf said:

That's what impact grenades are for...

Again, when building a list, impact grenades could be a waste of points if nothing has armour.    

Impact grenades do nothing to speeder bikes, apart from potential damage, but ions would hurt them more.   

The point I am making is that BOTH would have a place.   If ion does affect droid troopers, it makes it a very useful tool.

A single ion on a vehicle can save a trooper unit, be eliminating a much needed aim token by reducing actions.

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