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gazzagames

Frozen in Fear and other movement affecting cards

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Hi all!

just want to make sure we are playing things right on cards/effects that affect movement...

as we see it some cards ‘circumvent’ frozen in fear’s effect re movement as it specifically states the tacking of the action...

1) standard is to use your allotted actions, of which it would cost 2

2) the lvl2 shortcut would reduce this to 1 of you actual actions, as it have the word ‘move’ in bold so it is still considered to be a move action even though it is a free action

3) the lvl0 shortcut would enable you to move without spending any of your action, just the use of the card as the word ‘move’ is not in bold and so not considered an action per se

4) pathfinder likewise allows the move without spending any actions

5) astral travel likewise allows the move without spending any actions

Finally I’m sure there have also been locations and other effects that state things like ‘when moving from this location test x or cancel the move...’ would the assumption above hold true (assuming they are in fact correct as stated) for such cases, e.g. 1) & 2) would require the test, the others would not...

thanks in advance...

 

 

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Frozen in Fear says " The first time you perform one of the following actions".  L0 Shortcut does not perform a move action so no penalty.  Meanwhile, Astral Travel is a move action since its in bold so it does cost 2 actions.  L2 SC is also in bold so it costs an action and a free action in this case.

Other cards will trigger based on if it says Move, Move or perform a move action.

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For the first question (points 1-5), I think you have everything correct except for Astral Travel. This card has Move in its text and isn't fast, so it takes an action to play it as an Event then an extra action because of Frozen in Fear.

For the second part, even if you don't take the move action you are still moving. So taking a card like Arkham Woods (Twisting Paths): "Forced - When you move out of this location: Test [intellect] (3). If you fail, cancel the effects of the move." you would still need to take the test regardless of which of methods 1-5 you used.

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Thanks, yes astral travel does have the bold so that makes sense, I also meant to include mists of r’lyeh but as that is not in bold I assume it goes under ‘does not take an additional action’ bucket...

on other cards then I think it is fair to say if it has move or ‘perform a move action’ 3 & 4 would still not cost an action or need to make the test, where as in Assussanni’s example all methods of moving away would need to also pass any test or pay additional actions etc.

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Both the level 0 and level 2 Shortcut are Fast actions, so they are not affected by Frozen in Fear (since you are never spending an Action in the first place).

Same thing for the Rogue card Elusive.

 

Of everything mentioned, only the Astral Travel card costs 2 actions.  Anything with the Fast keyword or the (FAST-LIGHTNING-BOLT) symbol costs 0 actions and is not affected by Frozen in Fear.

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4 hours ago, Faranim said:

Both the level 0 and level 2 Shortcut are Fast actions, so they are not affected by Frozen in Fear (since you are never spending an Action in the first place).

Same thing for the Rogue card Elusive.

 

Of everything mentioned, only the Astral Travel card costs 2 actions.  Anything with the Fast keyword or the (FAST-LIGHTNING-BOLT) symbol costs 0 actions and is not affected by Frozen in Fear.

How do you figure?

The card says "The first time you perform one of the following actions".

Level 0 Shortcut has you move, not move.  So you aren't performing the "move action".  So it takes nothing.

Level 2 Shortcut has you move, not move.  So you are performing a move action, which would incur an additional cost of an action, going from 0 to 1.

An item in bold indicates that you are taking an action, even if you aren't spending one of your actions to do so.

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1 hour ago, Jobu said:

How do you figure?

The card says "The first time you perform one of the following actions".

Level 0 Shortcut has you move, not move.  So you aren't performing the "move action".  So it takes nothing.

Level 2 Shortcut has you move, not move.  So you are performing a move action, which would incur an additional cost of an action, going from 0 to 1.

An item in bold indicates that you are taking an action, even if you aren't spending one of your actions to do so.

This is incorrect. An ability is only an action if it takes an action. By definition, a fast triggered ability isn't an action. The bold text indicates what kind of effect it is, but if anything it seems to be a printing error on Shortcut (2) as there's not really anything in the game so far that would care about whether your fast movement is a move or not.

Frozen in Fear only applies for effects that take an action to use, whether the base actions that investigators have access to or action abilities on cards with the Move, Fight or Evade designators.

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Frozen in Fear:

Quote

The first time you perform one of the following actions (move, fight, or evade) each round, it costs 1 additional action.

FAQ (underlining mine):

Quote

If I play an event with a Fight ability, like Backstab ( 51), does it provoke attacks of opportunity?

No. Abilities with a bold action designator (like Fight, Evade or Investigate) count as an action of that type. In this case, since Backstab counts as a Fight action, no attacks of opportunity are made, because Fight actions do not provoke attacks of opportunity. The same goes for Fight abilities on assets, like .45 Automatic ( 16).

Fast abilities are still abilities, so they still "count as an action of that type".

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A strict reading of that FAQ entry certainly seems to indicate that, but that just reinforces my view that the bolding of "move" on Shortcut (2) is the mistake. After all, the RR is pretty clear about what is and is not an action and those sections haven't been errata'd, and the entry quoted is a "frequently asked question" point of clarification rather than a modification to the rules. If it is the case that bold action designators are only ever supposed to be printed on action abilities, the FAQ entry would make sense with the definition of an action without implying the contradictory position of an action that doesn't take an action.

Regardless, I've sent in a query along with a few other things I've been curious about so hopefully we can find out soon.

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I wonder if I've been thinking about Shortcut wrong?

Page 3: Some abilities have bold action designators (such as Fight, Evade, Investigate, or Move). Activating such an ability performs the designated action as described in the rules, but modified in the manner described by the ability.

Shortcut(2) could be a move action, which is modified by being a fast trigger so you don't spend an action on it.  I've been treating it just like a fast ability, but I'm thinking it's more like Ursula's ability in that it gives you an action without having to pay the action cost.  That would make it consistent.

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I think the Ursula comparison is apt.  You get to take three Actions on your turn, but the different kinds of actions may be available in other ways.  In other words, the Action is sort of a currency and is actually separate from the different kinds of possible Actions.

Shortcut(2) has been errata'd for other reasons already; I would hope they'd have caught and fixed a misprint at the same time.

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7 hours ago, CSerpent said:

I think the Ursula comparison is apt.  You get to take three Actions on your turn, but the different kinds of actions may be available in other ways.  In other words, the Action is sort of a currency and is actually separate from the different kinds of possible Actions.

Shortcut(2) has been errata'd for other reasons already; I would hope they'd have caught and fixed a misprint at the same time.

Would this mean then that shortcut(2) provokes an attack of opportunity, but shortcut(1) does not?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, gazzagames said:

Would this mean then that shortcut(2) provokes an attack of opportunity, but shortcut(1) does not?

This is specifically addressed under "Attack of Opportunity" in the Rules Reference: "Attacks of Opportunity are only triggered when 1 or more of an investigator’s actions are being spent or used to trigger an ability or action. [Free triggered] abilities with a bold action designator do not provoke attacks of opportunity."

This rule doesn't distinguish between bold action designators, so even though Shortcut (2) has Move it does not provoke an attack of opportunity because it is a free triggered ability.

Edited by Assussanni

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Assussanni said:

This is specifically addressed under "Attack of Opportunity" in the Rules Reference: "Attacks of Opportunity are only triggered when 1 or more of an investigator’s actions are being spent or used to trigger an ability or action. [Free triggered] abilities with a bold action designator do not provoke attacks of opportunity."

This rule doesn't distinguish between bold action designators, so even though Shortcut (2) has Move it does not provoke an attack of opportunity because it is a free triggered ability.

Good catch, and it's another instance of the rules distinguishing between spent actions and [Move, Fight, ...] Actions.

On the other hand, it sort of muddies the reasoning for Ursula's ability to cause an AoO.

Edited by CSerpent

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11 hours ago, Assussanni said:

This is specifically addressed under "Attack of Opportunity" in the Rules Reference

Just a minor point here, this is in the FAQ, not the Rules Reference.  I hadn't caught it before and it drove me nuts trying to figure out where it actually was, because it wasn't there :D

 

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9 hours ago, CSerpent said:

On the other hand, it sort of muddies the reasoning for Ursula's ability to cause an AoO.

They do at least explain this in the FAQ:

If an ability allows you to “take an action,” it is as though you are gaining an action and immediately spending it to perform that action.

It's a pretty odd (and not otherwise defined, IMHO) rule, but they do at least explain it and why it's different.

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11 hours ago, Assussanni said:

This is specifically addressed under "Attack of Opportunity" in the Rules Reference: "Attacks of Opportunity are only triggered when 1 or more of an investigator’s actions are being spent or used to trigger an ability or action. [Free triggered] abilities with a bold action designator do not provoke attacks of opportunity."

This rule doesn't distinguish between bold action designators, so even though Shortcut (2) has Move it does not provoke an attack of opportunity because it is a free triggered ability.

I'm not sure whether I'm grateful because you've answered the issue, annoyed because now it's possible for there to be an action that isn't an action which is just the most illogical rules interaction I can think of, or embarrassed to have asked FFG a question that they have already addressed...

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26 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Just a minor point here, this is in the FAQ, not the Rules Reference.  I hadn't caught it before and it drove me nuts trying to figure out where it actually was, because it wasn't there :D

 

Ah, sorry. I used the arkhamdb rules page and assumed that it was the same as the printed Rules Reference. Clearly they have been updating it with information from the FAQ.

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Update on this.  Someone on BGG got a ruling from Matt Newman.  Shortcut(2) is NOT affected by Frozen in Fear.  Only if an action is spent in the first place does FiF apply:

Quote

Greetings,

Frozen in Fear says that the action in question costs you “an additional action” to perform. In order for something to cost an “additional action,” that action must already be costing you one of your actions. Reaction abilities and free triggered abilities would not count. In this case, neither the reaction ability on Survival Knife nor the move ability on Shortcut cost one of your actions to perform, so the “additional action” cost from Frozen in Fear would not apply.

Cheers,
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Matthew Newman
Senior Card Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
mnewman@fantasyflightgames.com

 

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