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Alan Noir

A few more newbie qs

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Hey all, just a few more qs for clarification

 

For regular scout trooper unit with detonate x, if the unit loses all minis except the leader, can charges still be detonated, or does the upgrade become void? I get it in the case of a gun, but the leader not the upgrade seems to be the one who lays the charges.

Does spending an aim token count as modifying dice? We had a situation where two attack dice were rolled, scored regular hits but heavy cover cancelled them. The book says heavy cover "removes" two dice, rather than alters dice. Could the aim have been spent before cover was applied?

We also had a situation whereby almost all of an ATRT was in view but no los to the centre of the base. Is this mini benfitting from cover then? It was about 80% visible.

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2 hours ago, Alan Noir said:

For regular scout trooper unit with detonate x, if the unit loses all minis except the leader, can charges still be detonated, or does the upgrade become void? I get it in the case of a gun, but the leader not the upgrade seems to be the one who lays the charges

The throw is measured from your leader (range, los) but it is a heavy weapons upgrade so it is technically thrown by your heavy weapons dude. So if you lose him you also lose the ability to detonate the charge: "After a unit controlled by any player performs an action, each unit that has a weapon with the detonate x: charge type keyword may detonate x friendly charge tokens of the specified type. See “Detonate” on page 29." rr, p. 29.

2 hours ago, Alan Noir said:

Does spending an aim token count as modifying dice? We had a situation where two attack dice were rolled, scored regular hits but heavy cover cancelled them. The book says heavy cover "removes" two dice, rather than alters dice. Could the aim have been spent before cover was applied?

Aims are spent in Step 4b (Reroll Dice) of an attack before cover (in step 5) is applied. See rr, p. 15.

2 hours ago, Alan Noir said:

We also had a situation whereby almost all of an ATRT was in view but no los to the centre of the base. Is this mini benfitting from cover then? It was about 80% visible.

This is a bit trickier to answer. First you look from your leader, if the mini or base is somehow obstructed. If you can see the whole base and mini, that unit does not have cover even when there is terrain between them. If it is somehow obstructed you measure a line between the middle of the base of your unit leader to the middle of the base of the ATRT. If this line does not cross any terrain it means the ATRT gets no cover. If it crosses terrain you need to look if the terrain is a terrain that provide cover for the ATRT. For that it has to be at least as high as 50% of the miniature (i.e. a core set barricade is too small). If it is providing cover you need to check if it is heavy or light cover. The last 2 steps (eligible cover, light/heavy cover) are determined before the game starts.

So back to your question. YES it has cover since the mini is obscured and the LoS line is obstructed. IF the cover that is blocking the line is big enough (i.e. a house, tree). I.e. if the line was obstructed by a barricade (that is too small to give an ATRT cover, since it doe not have 50% hight of an ATRT) the ATRT gets no cover even though LoS is obscured.

If you have trouble understanding cover and LoS rules I recommend this thread. It helped me a lot:

P.S.: When I quote rr I mean the rule reference book. About 90% of the questions asked in this forum are answered there. You can download it for free here: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/43/4d/434d6594-d415-499f-9c8a-c2c860a6e040/swl_rules_reference_130_eng-compressed.pdf

 

Edited by Staelwulf

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Thanks. We have the rules downloaded, and read over a few LOS explainers too. It just seemed a bit counter intuitive since a trooper at elevation, but effectively in full view should get heavy cover, while the ATRT while mostly in view still gets none. 

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8 minutes ago, Alan Noir said:

Thanks. We have the rules downloaded, and read over a few LOS explainers too. It just seemed a bit counter intuitive since a trooper at elevation, but effectively in full view should get heavy cover, while the ATRT while mostly in view still gets none. 

That depends on the obscuring terrain. If the terrain can cover at least 50% of the AT-RT then it could have been determined to provide cover prior to the game starting. 

The cover rules are a simplification of what could otherwise become very complicated. The idea is that if there is some terrain in the way, then in "actuality" the model in question would be ducking behind it or otherwise trying to decrease their likelihood of getting shot. 

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Already answered, but just to back up what Staelwulf said:

1. Special attacks come from the heavy weapons mini.  If he/she is dead, no special attacks.

2. Yes, aim tokens can be used to try and get crits.  My local group refers to this as "fishing for crits."  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

3.  Depends on the situation, and this is where discussing things with your opponent helps.  Often, it's easy to come to a common-sense solution.  While not really rules legal, at casual games, if a unit should get heavy cover (by actual placement, LOS, or whatever) but doesn't by a strict adherence to the rules, we'll give it light cover to simulate it getting some benefit from hiding behind a big rock.  That depends on the nature of the game, if it's a casual or funnsies game, or one that actually matters. 

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On 4/22/2019 at 5:56 AM, Staelwulf said:

If it crosses terrain you need to look if the terrain is a terrain that provide cover for the ATRT. For that it has to be at least as high as 50% of the miniature (i.e. a core set barricade is too small).

I just want to point out this is not entirely correct. The RRG says "As a general rule, terrain that blocks line of sight to half or more of a mini provides cover, while terrain that blocks less than half of a mini does not." This is only to aid in the players defining the terrain before play begins, it is not a numeric rule that something has to be 50% as high as a miniature in order to provide cover, if the players decide otherwise.

Additionally, the height of a barricade is immaterial as per its rules article a barricade provides cover to troopers but explicitly not vehicles.

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4 hours ago, Turan said:

As a general rule, terrain that blocks line of sight to half or more of a mini provides cover

Some time has past since I was in school but I'm pretty sure that half or more equals 50% or more...

And yes all rules can be changed when your opponent agrees...

Your point is?

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On 4/26/2019 at 9:24 PM, Staelwulf said:

Some time has past since I was in school but I'm pretty sure that half or more equals 50% or more...

And yes all rules can be changed when your opponent agrees...

Your point is?

My point is that is not a written rule. Saying something is a "general rule" means a guideline, in a context of them saying this should be resolved as both players see is appropriate. To go from that to a forum post telling a newbie "to provide cover...it has to be at least as high as 50% of the miniature" is not true.

It is also misleading to say "all rules can be changed when your opponent agrees" - we're not talking about house rules, here. The actual written rule in the RRG is "all that matters is that players agree on...rules governing that terrain."

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