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Best current first order lists?

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On 7/18/2019 at 4:41 PM, thebrettski said:

While I've generally been trying to up my ship count to 5/6 ships,  I'm wondering if 4 ships firing twice at I6 would be enough to soften your opponent. 

(34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(3) Swarm Tactics
(5) Cluster Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(3) Swarm Tactics
(5) Cluster Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(6) Concussion Missiles
Points: 42

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Swarm Tactics
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
(4) Ion Missiles
Points: 62

Total points: 200

Tried a similar list. It's good, but still folds hard when attack dice are not on your side. 
Other than that, i'm not sure you have an optimal setup for those Tie/SF. Advanced optic AND FCS? Are you focussing, or TL as your action? Since you have missile you clearly want to TL. But then you have targeting synchronizer on quickdraw, so you want to focus with the SF and let quickdraw choose the target? And no Special force gunner on quickdraw, while her ability only works on primary attack?

If I where you, i'd tried something like this instead :
"Quickdraw" (45)    
    Swarm Tactics (5)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    
Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Swarm Tactics (3)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    

Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Swarm Tactics (3)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    

Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Swarm Tactics (3)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    

    
Total: 200    

Lots of dice, can make of use the ''Passive sensor to turn your arc at I6 when you engage'' trick, really strong at range to focus fire someone before they reach you.
The cornerstone of the list is quickdraw, and the whole thing WILL die in a second if quickdraw dies too early, so keep your distance!

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I think the concern is that in an ace heavy meta, lower initiative SFs will struggle to get usable target locks before blowing up. Something like this allows them to produce guaranteed damage while QD can take cover until the endgame:

QDSquad

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
Points: 51

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

Total points: 199

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I’ve been thinking about something similar, except dropping 1 of the zetas for LT Rivas.

 

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(28) Lieutenant Rivas [TIE/fo Fighter]
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
Points: 34

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
Points: 55

Total points: 200

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Tried a game with this:

Kylo Ren (76)
Hate (3)

“Midnight” (43)
Predator (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Afterburners (6)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Total: 199

Went up against brobots and tore em apart, so the list is now in my playbox. The zetas did the beefy stuff and Midnight basically solod brobot A. He afterburnered and got a ranged 2 predator shot and did two damage, taking the rest of the shields, then nexy round got a range 1 and sent 2 hita and a crit into it. The brobot rolled 3 eyeballs on defense too. Man, i forget how powerful Midnight is. They went after kylo, he ran, so they bullied a zeta, allowing midnight to get into attack position.

 

I also played a game with Quickdraw with predator + sf gunner + Afterburners, Scorch + crackshot, two PS1 silencers. This was a super beefy list, and I only won cause it went to time. I wouldnt feel comfortable taking it to a big tournament, but its a solid casual day or local tourney list. Fun and sticks around.

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On 7/9/2019 at 8:11 PM, MarkEmm said:

Kylo, Hate, AO

3 x SF, Ions & Passive Sensors

Plays really well, covers most bases and Kylo is a decent end-game piece.

I took this list (I am terrible for committing list theft, these threads are full of brilliant ideas) to a tournament yesterday, and I can confirm that it plays really well and Kylo is an excellent end-game piece.

I got a 3-1 result, placing fourth (with a MoV difference of around 20pts between me and third place). The Ion missiles provided a consistent threat to my opponents, forcing actions to dodge them and playing havoc with the first-player choice as well (let me move first, and I can fly to guarantee the Passive Sensor action, let me move second and Kylo becomes much more dangerous/survivable). 

My opponents flew Fenn-Guri-I3 Starviper (won due to a lucky block and Fenn dying shortly after he deleted an SF), a Drea Scum Swarm (Drea+ion, 3 K-fighters, Quadjumper) which was scrappy with ion bumps happening all over the place, a Republic list of Obi (7b), Ric, I2 Arc and 2 GST (which I lost by 6 points in MoV; this player ultimately won 4-0), and a 5 RZ-2 A-Wing list (the Ion missiles hardly did anything this game, but the squishiness of the As meant that I was able to whittle them down faster than they could kill the SFs).

Passive Sensors are an odd thing. It feels wrong to leave a ship without a defensive focus, and relying on two green dice alone is risky. While attacking, I found myself burning the locks as quickly as I gained them due to some incredibly poor dice rolls (in the final game I don't think I had a single hit or crit result on my initial Ion Missile rolls). It would have been nice to get some double modded shots off, but those circumstances never came up.

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While I've been spending more time playing around with Jedi and (now) with the N1, I kinda miss First Order a little bit. 
I had a lot of fun playing that Quickdraw/2 Silencer list that did quite well at the Denver System Open. I never got around to play with generic silencers, but AdvOptics+Fanatical on those init 4 is nothing to scoff at.
Some really nice lists in this topic though... :)

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On 7/12/2019 at 10:57 PM, hargleblarg said:

Has anyone else tried putting an advanced optics FO swarm on the table? 6 epsilons with optics gives you 20 points to play around with. I upgraded 3 to Scorch, Longshot, and Rivas and I have found that this squad does a ton of work.

It's most clearly comparable to the 6 tie Howl swarm. The biggest disadvantages are the loss of Howl's passive mods and Iden's Hail Mary save. In return, however, you don't have to fly a tight formation, which lets you create more elaborate flight patterns such as pincer formations. Advance Optics makes up for the loss of Howl and those extra shields give overall more bulk to the list than Iden, although you're still more likely to lose an early ship. 

Finally, that dial. Those sloops give you a lot of flexibility when you need to turn around, and those 2 hard blues give you such good movement options when you need to clear stress.

In conclusion, if you haven't put 6 FOs on the table yet, I think you really ought to try it.

I’ve had similar thoughts to this of late, and have the following squad lined up for the Hyperspace Qualifier in Paris:

FO Swarm

(39) Commander Malarus [TIE/fo Fighter]
(4) Swarm Tactics
Points: 43

(34) "Scorch" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 36

(32) "Longshot" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 34

(31) "Muse" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 33

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(28) Lieutenant Rivas [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 28

Total points: 200

It’s probably not as competitive as the Inferno Swarm, but as you state it’s more manoeuvrable and less reliant on formation flying. It’s also more survivable with the shields, although you don’t have Iden’s protection against an unlucky defensive roll.

Malarus’s ability allows her to take a lock at I5, which gives Rivas his lock. If Rivas focuses both are double-modded. And Muse can trigger after Malarus to remove her stress. Anyone shooting before the mid-range initiatives needs to consider whether taking their shield is worth activating Fanatical for the return shot too. And the combination of sloops and k-turns allows for some nice killboxes after the initial joust. Overall, I wouldn’t say it’s a top tier squad, but it’s fun to fly and capable of catching people out with its versatility.

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I recently put this on the table:

Kylo Ren (Advanced Optics)
4x Epsilon Sq. Pilot (Advanced Optics)
200 TOTAL

I didn't really think it would work, but I beat Republic Jedi and quad Resistance Transport. May have to keep trying it.

Funny anecdote: I dealt "I'll Show You the Dark Side" in both games, and got the crit to go beneath shields in both games. Nice!

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This just won the Tuscon AZ Trial this past weekend

"Quickdraw" (45)    
    Fanatical (2)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
    
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (26)    
    
Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)     
    
Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)     
    
Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)    
   
Total: 198 

 

5 Ship FO salad. Not sure how important the 2 pt bid was for QD, but that Cadet could become Lt. Rivas which seems alright. 

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Had some success with 3 naked I1 Silencers and fanatical Midnight. The weak link here is Midnight (I've just created a post to theory-craft alternatives) but I wanted something at high initiative to trouble aces. The Silencers are outstanding blockers and pack a punch as well. 

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On 7/22/2019 at 2:51 PM, RStan said:

This just won the Tuscon AZ Trial this past weekend

"Quickdraw" (45)    
    Fanatical (2)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
    
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (26)    
    
Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)     
    
Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)     
    
Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)    
   
Total: 198 

 

5 Ship FO salad. Not sure how important the 2 pt bid was for QD, but that Cadet could become Lt. Rivas which seems alright. 

You should write up your BatRep!

 

I'm sure lots of people would love to know, myself included, how you handled this little charcuterie of FO :)

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26 minutes ago, bydand said:

You should write up your BatRep!

 

I'm sure lots of people would love to know, myself included, how you handled this little charcuterie of FO :)

Oh that wasn't me, it was Evan Pomerantz. Not even sure if he's on the forums, but the trial was streamed. Forget by whom though. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 10:11 PM, theBitterFig said:

I've got like three or four variants of mostly [Kylo + 2x lowbie FOs + 2nd Ace] packed.

Sense Kylo might work pretty well in a list like this.  With two Epsilons (or maybe Lieutenant Rivas for only 2 points more than the chance of picking up free Locks), that could be a lot of blocking potential.

Maybe cut Blackout for Quickdraw (59 points is Fanatical/Fire Control System/SFGunner), and add Pattern Analyzers to the TIE/fo.

Finally put a version of this on the table.

  • Kylo (Sense) - 81
  • Quickdraw (Fanatical/FCS/SFGunner) - 59
  • Epsilon Cadet - 26
  • Lt Rivas - 28
    • Bid 6

Feels good.  I chose first player, so my FOs could get in and block some Separatists.  They wound up throwing in a decent amount of chip damage and finishing.  Rivas with his Lock seemed to matter.  Quickdraw is a solid hitter.  A lot of ace-killing potential, and just solid damage output.  He's like the Wedge of the First Order.  Kylo didn't really use Sense this game (I got zapped down to half-points with two bad green dice rolls and bugged out), but he's just a good ace.

Overall, probably a decent enough replacement for Kylo/QD/Tavson.  I don't think it's quite as good, but it's not too bad, if you just don't enjoy Upsilons.

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On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:45 PM, fantomenos said:

I think the concern is that in an ace heavy meta, lower initiative SFs will struggle to get usable target locks before blowing up. Something like this allows them to produce guaranteed damage while QD can take cover until the endgame:

QDSquad

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
Points: 51

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Homing Missiles
Points: 37

Total points: 199

Looks interesting, but I question the advantage over 5 x Zetas with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors - this list lacks the gunner that gives Quickdraw much of her punch, and the missile barrage folds if Quickdraw gets killed between initiative 5 and initiative 3.

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56 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks interesting, but I question the advantage over 5 x Zetas with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors - this list lacks the gunner that gives Quickdraw much of her punch, and the missile barrage folds if Quickdraw gets killed between initiative 5 and initiative 3.

Targeting Synchronizer just feels like the long way around, when there exist Passive Sensors...

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Targeting Synchronizer just feels like the long way around, when there exist Passive Sensors...

For TIE/sf I'd agree. I think Targeting Synchroniser still has a use - firstly for T-70s or Silencers who can't equip passive sensors.

There is some use on cheap SF where one synchroniser replaces many passive sensors, but I think in the latter case you really need to also spring for a swarm tactics chain to get your ordnance off before the synchroniser gets blown away.

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Posted (edited)

I've been trying a few variations on Upsilon's and SF's and have refined to this:-

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)       
x 3
    
Starkiller Base Pilot (58)    
    Biohexacrypt Codes (1)    
    General Hux (6)    
    Captain Phasma (5)    
    Electronic Baffle (2)
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z259XW182WWWY259XW182WWWY259XW182WWWY288X202WW180W183WWWW106&sn=Ups%2B3SF&obs=

The SF is just good value on it's own, as is the Ups.  Hux allows for a triple Coordinate - usually a Focus or Lock, meaning all the SF get double mods most of the time.  The options here are vast:- coord a barrel before they move (linked to rotate if needed); SF's do a blue and still get an action. Or SF's move and focus, Ups moves into range and coords a Lock etc.

All at I2 is key as the Ups can go 1st and coordinate, or move into range and coordinate last.

Biohex goes on the SF most likely to stray the furthest away, and Baffle lets me clear stress without being forced to take a blue next turn.

30HP split 15/15, 13 attack dice, mostly double modded, coordinate, stress removal and stress causing, with a minor 2 pt bid - if that matters much at I2.  Jousts very well too :)

Will be trying it at a small Hyperspace this weekend.

Edited by MarkEmm
Typo's

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On 7/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, MarkEmm said:

I've been trying a few variations on Upsilon's and SF's and have refined to this:-

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)       
x 3
    
Starkiller Base Pilot (58)    
    Biohexacrypt Codes (1)    
    General Hux (6)    
    Captain Phasma (5)    
    Electronic Baffle (2)
    

This looks intressting. I still love the Fanatical /adv optics on the experts , but evryone are talkning about the Zeta-Gunners at 42, i dont know what combo will be the best value. 

Zeta , gunner 42  points, ability to dubbeltapp 

Expert , Fanatical / Adv optics . 40 points, and they get those hits,. ****, It feels good to se a opponet take that last shield. and then on the return shot,  shooting, result 1 evade, 1 blank, Fanatical to hit and adv opitics to hit. 😃 I love it, flown 5 of them twice, vs Ray/fin/leia and Poe , 60/200 and 4 T-70s , 100 / 176 ,. This coming week il try them out vs aces. 

Let me know how you are doing in the hyperspace!! Fly awsome! 

Krayt of sweden out

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Posted (edited)

New order Zeta Sqn. Played this this evening to its conclusion vs Whisper Echo and SS Ace with SD and Juke . A win 195 to 124.

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 34

(34) "Scorch" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(2) Fanatical
Points: 40

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 34

(32) "Longshot" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 38

(27) Zeta Squadron Pilot [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 27

(27) Zeta Squadron Pilot [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 27

Total points: 200.

Phantoms could not arc dodge I always had something pointed at them. Death by Thousand cuts. The list does not want to stay in formation by turn 3 they are all over the place. I kept my focus tokens for attacking not defence. Lost Scorch and a SF ,longshot SF and FO below half. One Zeta full health. My opponent I consider a pretty decent phantom player.

Edited by Saloh Cin

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:01 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks interesting, but I question the advantage over 5 x Zetas with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors - this list lacks the gunner that gives Quickdraw much of her punch, and the missile barrage folds if Quickdraw gets killed between initiative 5 and initiative 3.

Yeah, so far Homing missiles haven't been as useful as I had hoped against the tanker lists that I play against locally.

 

Passive Sensors sounds like a great idea if, you know, the card was actually available for purchase by someone who only plays FO and Empire...

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12 hours ago, fantomenos said:

Yeah, so far Homing missiles haven't been as useful as I had hoped against the tanker lists that I play against locally.

 

Passive Sensors sounds like a great idea if, you know, the card was actually available for purchase by someone who only plays FO and Empire...

Hope that the cardpacks can help with that!! 

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In three trials in last two weeks, Kylo, Quickdraw,Tavson went undefeated in swiss in two, and 5-1 in one. Neither won the tournies though. But this list is probably the best FO has right now.

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Posted (edited)

Inspired by the above thread, I started to have a thought: I know the Quickdraw and double Silencer archetype in 2e has mostly used First Order Test Pilots, as sort of generic Aces.  However, what if it used 2x Sienar-Jaemus Engineers? That'd open up enough points for a 4th ship, and First Order have some really good filler right now.  With just Gunner on QD, you'd have 43 points to play with.

Depending on how lean you're willing go go on Quickdraw, you could fit Midnight, Backdraft, Scorch, Null, Rivas, or Muse.  The latter ones can afford a decent amount of perks in the list.

*e* A generic SF with some toys would also fit, and those are also decent.

Edited by theBitterFig

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