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Best current first order lists?

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Since double Jedi, double torrent was a sort of thing 

New Squadron

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(3) Hate
Points: 79

(63) "Blackout" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 65

Total points: 196

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Since double Jedi, double torrent was a sort of thing 

New Squadron

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(3) Hate
Points: 79

(63) "Blackout" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 65

Total points: 196

Mod squad

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]

(3) Hate

(4) Advanced Optics

Points: 83

(39) "Backdraft" [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

(2) Fanatical

Points: 45

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

Points: 36

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

Points: 36

Total points: 200

 

A bit more arc coverage and more consistent offence. But all in all this archetype is popular in most factions. 

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4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Since double Jedi, double torrent was a sort of thing 

New Squadron

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 26

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(3) Hate
Points: 79

(63) "Blackout" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 65

Total points: 196

I've got like three or four variants of mostly this packed.

Sense Kylo might work pretty well in a list like this.  With two Epsilons (or maybe Lieutenant Rivas for only 2 points more than the chance of picking up free Locks), that could be a lot of blocking potential.

Maybe cut Blackout for Quickdraw (59 points is Fanatical/Fire Control System/SFGunner), and add Pattern Analyzers to the TIE/fo.

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I've considered "Avenger" with a swarm, but Sense Kylo is a very nice idea too - really letting the TIE/fo use their ability to get in the way.

Kylo with Sense, Muse with Pattern Analyser, two Epsilon Cadets and TN-3465 might work well. Theoretically, Kylo's not going to be eating through force too much, so might actually make use of I'll Show You The Dark Side - in which case, TN-3465's ability goes from good to exceptionally good, as trading a shield token for a shield-piercing Panicked Pilot (for example) is one heck of a trade.

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Posted (edited)

Avenger also has an advantage in actually being cheaper than FOTP now.  Main reason I've thought about Kylo/Blackout/Avenger is that I think 5/5/3 is a better Init spread than 5/4/4, but the bonus action might be handy.

Hrm... Hate Kylo, Fanatical Avenger, and two Fanatical Omega FOs.  Everyone's got semi-decent Init 3, with potential for passive mods, and enough squishy ships that Avenger becomes a bit more of a threat.

The other Avenger Swarm occurring to me: 3x Fanatical Omega Expert SFs, Fanatical Omega Ace FO, Fanatical Avenger.  I've thought about (and played once) Blackout, 2x SF, 2x FO, so it's a question of whether Blackout worth enough to downgrade one SF to an FO.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Kylo with Sense, Muse with Pattern Analyser, two Epsilon Cadets and TN-3465 might work well. Theoretically, Kylo's not going to be eating through force too much, so might actually make use of I'll Show You The Dark Side - in which case, TN-3465's ability goes from good to exceptionally good, as trading a shield token for a shield-piercing Panicked Pilot (for example) is one heck of a trade.

Swap to Zetas FOs to enjoy all Init 2 on the TIEs?

Edited by theBitterFig

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40 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Avenger also has an advantage in actually being cheaper than FOTP now.  Main reason I've thought about Kylo/Blackout/Avenger is that I think 5/5/3 is a better Init spread than 5/4/4, but the bonus action might be handy.

Either way, a trio of silencers looks quite tempting. If you're not taking the eye-wateringly expensive Supernatural Reflexes Kylo's pretty good value, and all the other pilots seem really good value for money.

I'm permanently paranoid when flying anything vaguely ace-like, so I keep thinking about 3 Silencers with Elusive and Pattern Analysers - between focus on talon rolls, defensive rerolls and a brace of shield tokens, they're reassuringly tough for something that can move like a TIE interceptor.

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1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Either way, a trio of silencers looks quite tempting. If you're not taking the eye-wateringly expensive Supernatural Reflexes Kylo's pretty good value, and all the other pilots seem really good value for money.

I'm permanently paranoid when flying anything vaguely ace-like, so I keep thinking about 3 Silencers with Elusive and Pattern Analysers - between focus on talon rolls, defensive rerolls and a brace of shield tokens, they're reassuringly tough for something that can move like a TIE interceptor.

I do love Kad Solus with Elusive, and this build on a Silencer is basically that.

However, Fanatical kinda feels like the best Talent in the game, so I'm reluctant to build anything First Order with other talents.

Hard choices.

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I might begin messing with Midnight. I think in Hyperspace he can be good as the builds for ships are getting more expensive which means less ships on the mat. Always a plus for Midnight. Especially with 120pt Decimators and Falcons making their way onto tables, Midnight can shut them down.

Kylo Ren (76)
Hate (3)

“Midnight” (43)
Predator (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Afterburners (6)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Total: 199

I love the idea of Midnight and afterburners. Gives him a boost and roll, and with PA, he can roll and boost after a sloop. And topping at 56pts, he is more expensive than naked Wedges, named Bwings, etc, so he cant just be ignored and then your opponent wins on points with a 48pt ship surviving. Two Zeta SFs provide some beef up the middle with multiple arcs. Im not a fan of Hate, and prefer Kylo naked, but in this list, I think Kylo needs to get a little aggressive to put in damage and Hate can pay off.

 

If I get my hands on a couple more Silencers, I would definitely fly this:

“Midnight” (43)
Advanced Optics (4)

Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)

Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)

Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)
Total: 200

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Has anyone else tried putting an advanced optics FO swarm on the table? 6 epsilons with optics gives you 20 points to play around with. I upgraded 3 to Scorch, Longshot, and Rivas and I have found that this squad does a ton of work.

It's most clearly comparable to the 6 tie Howl swarm. The biggest disadvantages are the loss of Howl's passive mods and Iden's Hail Mary save. In return, however, you don't have to fly a tight formation, which lets you create more elaborate flight patterns such as pincer formations. Advance Optics makes up for the loss of Howl and those extra shields give overall more bulk to the list than Iden, although you're still more likely to lose an early ship. 

Finally, that dial. Those sloops give you a lot of flexibility when you need to turn around, and those 2 hard blues give you such good movement options when you need to clear stress.

In conclusion, if you haven't put 6 FOs on the table yet, I think you really ought to try it.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

Has anyone else tried putting an advanced optics FO swarm on the table? 6 epsilons with optics gives you 20 points to play around with.

I'm trying something similar in a local tournament today, but instead of doing full TIE/fo I'm using the newly discounted /sf as a swarmy option. I can't get Optics on all of them like this (unless I drop to 3x/sf and 3x/fo), but the Optics ships are the hardest ones to PS-kill and they're the ones with front and rear arcs (so they can fire with a focus while moving past enemies). I could swap out the /fo in my list for Zeta pilots to get everything initiative 2, but I like the i1 for blocking, and Rivas should be able to get a little more offence out of his 2 red dice.

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 26
    Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (26)

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 28
    •Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (28)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Edited by Dasharr

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Just came second at a 20 odd player tournie 4/1 with the below list, first real time flying /sf's semi seriously. Sense worked well on Kylo, still thinking of tweaking the layout on the three /sf's. 

 

1. Mod squad

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]

(5) Sense

Points: 81

 

(39) "Backdraft" [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

(2) Fanatical

Points: 45

 

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

Points: 36

 

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]

(4) Advanced Optics

Points: 36

Total points: 198

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12 hours ago, Dasharr said:

I'm trying something similar in a local tournament today [...]

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 26
    Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (26)

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 28
    •Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (28)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 36
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Update - it worked very well, I went 4-0 and took 1st place out of a field of 14.

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18 hours ago, Dasharr said:

Update - it worked very well, I went 4-0 and took 1st place out of a field of 14.

That's awesome. The efficient cost of FOs and SFs makes me think that FO swarms are going to have a bigger impact on the meta than anyone predicted

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1 hour ago, hargleblarg said:

That's awesome. The efficient cost of FOs and SFs makes me think that FO swarms are going to have a bigger impact on the meta than anyone predicted

Trying the squad out in a tournament, it wasn't a big surprise that it was effective - I expected that. What was a surprise was that it was much easier to fly than the standard 6-TIE Imperial Howlrunner swarm. It's a combination of not being locked into a formation with the range-1 bubble of Howlrunner, and also the ability of the /sfs to disengage while shooting behind them. Unlike an Imperial TIE swarm, obstacles ARE your friend for that reason. In one game I let most of the obstacles get piled on my side of the board and let the enemy (5-ship Imperial i4s) engage me there. The initial exchange was hairy but on the following rounds my opponent had no good choices because the obstacles left few paths (with the /fos in the way too), which enabled me to killbox the enemy with the /sfs as I fanned them out.

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12 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

What was a surprise was that it was much easier to fly than the standard 6-TIE Imperial Howlrunner swarm. It's a combination of not being locked into a formation with the range-1 bubble of Howlrunner, and also the ability of the /sfs to disengage while shooting behind them. Unlike an Imperial TIE swarm, obstacles ARE your friend for that reason. 

That's been my exact experience so far. I take big rocks because I know I can fly around them with ease while forcing my opponent to engage in predictable lanes.

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On 7/9/2019 at 3:11 PM, MarkEmm said:

Kylo, Hate, AO

3 x SF, Ions & Passive Sensors

Plays really well, covers most bases and Kylo is a decent end-game piece.

I was just thinking about something wicked similar, but with no upgrades on Kylo, and Concussion Missile rather than Ion on the Zetas.

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12 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I was just thinking about something wicked similar, but with no upgrades on Kylo, and Concussion Missile rather than Ion on the Zetas.

I've tried with all missile types that fit, points-wise.  In my experience you rarely get more than 2 hits, and I'd usually prefer 1 Hit plus Ion than 2 hits.

You need 'something' on Kylo. As your hitter and end-game piece he really needs to try and push through 3-4 hits per shot, and the Force alone is not enough for that.

The tricks you can pull with SF's specifically and PS are awesome.  Block, no shot, take PS at engage, Lock/Spin turret & shoot etc. are just very good. 

The only downsides are getting initiative killed prior to shooting, somehow getting stressed before activation, and having no defensive mod when you are shot (if you shoot after the enemy).  And the first of those applies to any lower Init ship.

It also forces most small based ships to think very hard about moving as no one likes having their Ace ioned and facing Kylo + 1-2 other ships pounding on them the following turn.

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2 hours ago, MarkEmm said:

I've tried with all missile types that fit, points-wise.  In my experience you rarely get more than 2 hits, and I'd usually prefer 1 Hit plus Ion than 2 hits.

I guess it depends on the kinds of ships you expect to face.  If you wind up facing stuff like Decimators or Upsilons, Ion can struggle to do enough damage over the course of the game.  Most of the time, Kylo can do enough beating to help (I love 4x Ion Scyks + Fenn Rau, which mixes Ion with beater).  I guess it'd be possible to split the difference. 2x Ion, 1x Concussion, with either Hate or Optics on Kylo.  One Conc firing last probably has a decent chance to flip up a damage card, but mixed squads like that are often irksome to me.

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While I've generally been trying to up my ship count to 5/6 ships,  I'm wondering if 4 ships firing twice at I6 would be enough to soften your opponent. 

(34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(3) Swarm Tactics
(5) Cluster Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(3) Swarm Tactics
(5) Cluster Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
(6) Concussion Missiles
Points: 42

(45) "Quickdraw" [TIE/sf Fighter]
(5) Swarm Tactics
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Targeting Synchronizer
(4) Ion Missiles
Points: 62

Total points: 200

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1 hour ago, Manolox said:

Now that Brilliant Evasion come down in price what do you think about a AO, BE kylo?

I think it could be a better choise than hate.

Nope, nope, nope. If you have 3points to spend on a force ability, Hate wins every time. 

BE really needs to be 0-1 points to be worth it. 

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4 hours ago, Manolox said:

Now that Brilliant Evasion come down in price what do you think about a AO, BE kylo?

I think it could be a better choise than hate.

Brilliant Evasion and Hate are both kind of Force-Efficiency talents.  I don't think Brilliant Evasion is unplayable at it's current cost on a 3-agility ship, but Hate is better.

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Posted (edited)

Re FO swarms, I'ma do some roundabout calculations

FO doesn't have Howlie; it has optics

Howlie is 40. Generic FO is 26, leaving 14 points of optics (i.e 3...and a half). So, FO's "Howlrunner" is "Rivas + 3 optics"

So, something like

 

(34) "Scorch" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 36

(32) "Longshot" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 33

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 30

(28) Lieutenant Rivas [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 28

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 36

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 36

Total points: 199

 

Optics cadet could be muse or null for a full 200 points 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Re FO swarms, I'ma do some roundabout calculations

FO doesn't have Howlie; it has optics

Howlie is 40. Generic FO is 26, leaving 14 points of optics (i.e 3...and a half). So, FO's "Howlrunner" is "Rivas + 3 optics"

So, something like

 

(34) "Scorch" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
Points: 36

(32) "Longshot" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 33

(26) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 30

(28) Lieutenant Rivas [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 28

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 36

(32) Zeta Squadron Survivor [TIE/sf Fighter]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 36

Total points: 199

 

Optics cadet could be muse or null for a full 200 points 

I'm running a very similar squad (Instead of SFs, I'm running all FOs with optics on everyone). I'm currently 8-0 at league night. Granted, league night is not the most competitive scene, but my group has some very good players.

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