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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Fudwicket said:

Does the Buzz Droid stay attached to the ship?

It does exactly what the card says:  Whenever an enemy ship moves over it, the droids relocate to either the front or back arcs of that ship.  That means that, if the droids are BEHIND the targeted ship, they can be escaped... but if the droids are in FRONT, the targeted ship will probably have to fly over them next round.  One could always try to barrel roll away from the token, as well, in a pinch.  Alternately, they can be peeled off of one ship by flying over then with another (plot-wise, think of what Anakin did to save Obi-Wan in Episode 3).  Of course, if the repositioned droids can't fit anywhere, they just explode on the latest ship to touch them.

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Edited by emeraldbeacon

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2 minutes ago, Asaverino1019 said:

If the buzz droid can't fit on one enemy ship because it is obstructed by a second enemy ship, can the swarm them move to the second obstructing ship?

No. If it can't fit in either side because anything is in the way, it and the ship it's trying to latch onto take a damage.

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2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. If it can't fit in either side because anything is in the way, it and the ship it's trying to latch onto take a damage.

What about in the rare situation that the buzz droids are launched in such a way that 2 enemy ships are simultaneously overlapping them? Would the controlling player first have to declare which ship they are attempting to relocate the buzz droids to before checking to see if they fit or are they able to check all 4 locations between the 2 ships before deciding? My thoughts are that they would have to first pick a ship before checking.

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1 minute ago, MadTownXWing said:

What about in the rare situation that the buzz droids are launched in such a way that 2 enemy ships are simultaneously overlapping them? Would the controlling player first have to declare which ship they are attempting to relocate the buzz droids to before checking to see if they fit or are they able to check all 4 locations between the 2 ships before deciding? My thoughts are that they would have to first pick a ship before checking.

When you launch it beneath two ships, you choose which one it's on and have to attempt to fit it in either the front or back nubs of that ship. If if doesn't fit in one of those then it and that ship each take a damage. So yes, you appear to be correct there. :) 

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When you launch the buzz droids so they o erlap one or more ships you simply place the token under the ship(s)

You only relocate rhe buzz droids if the ship overlaps or moves through them. So if it is u derneath more than one ship, it relocates with the first ship to overlap or move throug it

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6 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

When you launch the buzz droids so they o erlap one or more ships you simply place the token under the ship(s)

You only relocate rhe buzz droids if the ship overlaps or moves through them. So if it is u derneath more than one ship, it relocates with the first ship to overlap or move throug it

When you place the token underneath a ship, the ship overlaps it.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, StephenEsven said:

No. A ship can only overlap anything when it moves.

There is a big difference between a ship overlapping a buzz droid and a buzz droid overlapping a ship 

This is incorrect. I believe you are thinking about the confusion over whether you suffer the effects of overlapping an obstacle when not moving; however, that would not be because you can't overlap if you're not moving, but rather because the RRG entry for obstacles only describes consequences for overlapping while moving.

Also, note the official ruling regarding proximity mines in the Official Rulings thread, detailing a similar no-movement overlap:

Quote

Q: Does a Proximity Mine, when dropped overlapping a ship in the System Phase, detonate immediately?

A: Yes. When an object is placed underneath a ship, that ship counts as overlapping that object.

 

Edited by Maui.

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Posted (edited)

It's funny, I had the same response typed out as you do @Maui. . But I think @StephenEsven has pointed out a oversight in the rules, namely there are no rules for what happens when Buzz Droids overlap a ship when they are launched. Unlike the DRK-1 Probe Droid, which explicitly says:

Quote

If the DRK-1 overlaps a ship, use the position marker to denote the ships position, then place the ship on top of the remote

...there is no such rule for Buzz Droids and there is no general rule for remotes that says the ship is placed on top of the Buzz Droids. As a matter of fact the only rules that mention overlap for Buzz Droids are:

Quote

After an enemy ship overlaps or moves through a buzz droid swarm, the swarm's controlling player relocates it by aligning the tab to that ship's front or rear guides .... The swarm cannot be aligned to a set of the ship's guides if doing so would cause it to overlap an object. .... If it cannot be aligned to the other set, the swarm and the enemy ship that overlapped or moved through it each suffer 1 damage.

So there is no RAW for what happens when a Buzz Droid overlaps a ship when launched. In my opinion, RAI is for them to behave as the DRK-1 does, but you could make an argument that Buzz Droids cannot be initially deployed overlapping an object (like a ship) and so if you fired the discord missile and one of the positions overlapped an object, you would have to deploy it to one of the other positions (kind of like a 1e boost).

And as an aside, there are also no rules about what, if anything, happens if the Discord Missiles' 3 speed template is placed on top of 1 or more ships, but that's a whole other discussion. :)

Edited by Nspace

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6 hours ago, Nspace said:

It's funny, I had the same response typed out as you do @Maui. . But I think @StephenEsven has pointed out a oversight in the rules, namely there are no rules for what happens when Buzz Droids overlap a ship when they are launched. Unlike the DRK-1 Probe Droid, which explicitly says:

...there is no such rule for Buzz Droids and there is no general rule for remotes that says the ship is placed on top of the Buzz Droids. As a matter of fact the only rules that mention overlap for Buzz Droids are:

So there is no RAW for what happens when a Buzz Droid overlaps a ship when launched. In my opinion, RAI is for them to behave as the DRK-1 does, but you could make an argument that Buzz Droids cannot be initially deployed overlapping an object (like a ship) and so if you fired the discord missile and one of the positions overlapped an object, you would have to deploy it to one of the other positions (kind of like a 1e boost).

And as an aside, there are also no rules about what, if anything, happens if the Discord Missiles' 3 speed template is placed on top of 1 or more ships, but that's a whole other discussion. :)

Remotes are objects. The prox mine ruling tells us that when objects are deployed underneath a ship, the ship overlaps the object. Such an overlap is sufficient to trigger the buzz droids.

The rules don't say anything about the launch template moving through a ship, but that doesn't mean we don't know what happens. It means that nothing happens.

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That post in the official rules thread is actually not substantiated by the RRG. The rules for devices is that if a device that detonates when overlapped or moved through is placed under more than one ship it detonates immediately.

So now we have an updated RRG that is published after a ruling on the forum and the post is not consistent with the rules. So every Judge will now have to decide which is correct in their tournament. And every casual gamer will have to debate this if it comes up.

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11 hours ago, StephenEsven said:

Actually tge rules for devices already reflect what the drk probe says. If a device is placed overlappi g a ship,m place the device under the ship.

Ah, I had missed that. Buzz Droids are classified as both type Remote and type Device. That makes me wonder why that line is in the DRK-1 rules then.

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20 hours ago, StephenEsven said:

When you launch the buzz droids so they overlap one or more ships you simply place the token under the ship(s)

You only relocate the buzz droids if the ship overlaps or moves through them. So if it is underneath more than one ship, it relocates with the first ship to overlap or move throug it

I would incline to agree to this statement because another part of the card says:

Quote

Engagement Phase: When you engage, each enemy ship at
range 0 of the buzz droid swarm suffers 1 crit damage.

I do not see a situation where several ships can be at range 0 other than when after launch the buzz droid is overlapping several ships. After a ship moves, either it is relocated without overlapping another ship, either it can not and is then destroyed.

 

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36 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

That post in the official rules thread is actually not substantiated by the RRG. The rules for devices is that if a device that detonates when overlapped or moved through is placed under more than one ship it detonates immediately.

So now we have an updated RRG that is published after a ruling on the forum and the post is not consistent with the rules. So every Judge will now have to decide which is correct in their tournament. And every casual gamer will have to debate this if it comes up.

Does the RRG say somewhere that you don't overlap an object that is placed underneath you?

If the RRG contradicted the ruling, you'd have an argument. But it doesn't. The ruling is a supplemental clarification that tells us that a ship does, in fact, overlap objects that are placed underneath it, and no rule issued since has instructed otherwise.

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3 hours ago, StephenEsven said:

That post in the official rules thread is actually not substantiated by the RRG. The rules for devices is that if a device that detonates when overlapped or moved through is placed under more than one ship it detonates immediately.

So now we have an updated RRG that is published after a ruling on the forum and the post is not consistent with the rules. So every Judge will now have to decide which is correct in their tournament. And every casual gamer will have to debate this if it comes up.

That question is now in the FAQ section of the RRG. Page 26

"Q: Does a priximity mine, when dropped overlapping a ship in the system phase, detonate immediately?

A: Yes. When an object is placed underneath a ship, that ship counts as overlapping that object."

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Soit is. But why did they put it in an FAQ section if they could have changes the rules rederence to reflect this? Personally I believe whoever answered that question is not aware that the rules actually don't specify what happens when an obstacle overlaps a ship.

If the rule indeed is that a ship counts as overlapping when an obstacle is placed underneath it, then the rule about a device detonating if it is placed underneath more than one ship is superfluous.

The FAQ part is just that. Answers to questions. Not the actual rules. And it is not unheard of that answers in FAQs have contradictes rules before.

So until FFG adresses this again we simply don't know if placing a device underneath a ship means that the ship overlapped it.

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6 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

Soit is. But why did they put it in an FAQ section if they could have changes the rules rederence to reflect this? Personally I believe whoever answered that question is not aware that the rules actually don't specify what happens when an obstacle overlaps a ship.

If the rule indeed is that a ship counts as overlapping when an obstacle is placed underneath it, then the rule about a device detonating if it is placed underneath more than one ship is superfluous.

The FAQ part is just that. Answers to questions. Not the actual rules. And it is not unheard of that answers in FAQs have contradictes rules before.

So until FFG adresses this again we simply don't know if placing a device underneath a ship means that the ship overlapped it.

No offense intended, but your personal opinion isn't enough to override official rulings, and you don't get to pick and choose which official rulings are allowed. The FAQ is part of the RRG. It was updated with the most recent rules update. The official ruling thread is... well... official.

You don't have to like it, but them's the rules, man.

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12 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

Soit is. But why did they put it in an FAQ section if they could have changes the rules rederence to reflect this? Personally I believe whoever answered that question is not aware that the rules actually don't specify what happens when an obstacle overlaps a ship.

If the rule indeed is that a ship counts as overlapping when an obstacle is placed underneath it, then the rule about a device detonating if it is placed underneath more than one ship is superfluous.

The FAQ part is just that. Answers to questions. Not the actual rules. And it is not unheard of that answers in FAQs have contradictes rules before.

So until FFG adresses this again we simply don't know if placing a device underneath a ship means that the ship overlapped it.

nope, it's good for clarity. the original rule also specifies that the devices owner chooses which ship will take the effect from a mine detonating when it's placed underneath more than one ship. devices can overlap ships as well, when placed. that doesn't mean the ship overlaps you, but according to the precedence set by the incomplete ruling on rigged cargo and the added part about proximity mines, ships do overlap devices or obstacles placed underneath them as well. nothing wrong with stating something twice.

an FAQ is an FAQ and rules are rules, yes. but when an FAQ is included in the rules reference, there is no doubt that the FAQ is part of the rules.

there are rules for what happens when a device overlaps a ship. it is placed under the ship. it wasn't until the FAQ entry it was clear that the ship overlaps the device as well. the same is true for obstacles, even though there was no mention of what happens when an obstacle is placed overlapping a ship in the rules before the FAQ.

also note that it's not just the answers that are relevant here. it's the questions as well. object overlap and ship overlap goes both ways. they overlap each other.

 

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On 4/22/2019 at 9:08 PM, Asaverino1019 said:

If the buzz droid can't fit on one enemy ship because it is obstructed by a second enemy ship, can the swarm them move to the second obstructing ship?

no. there is no indication that you could either. you and the ship you were trying to relocate on would each suffer one damage.

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@meffo you are right. It is my personal oppinion. I statet eralier that we can't know for sure because we have co tradicting rules in the RRG now.

If you read the first post of the actual FAQ thread they state that you should only ask a question if it is not answered by the rules. So rewind to when yhis question was asked.

Does a Proximity mjne detonate when placed under a ship. It is not covered by the Overlapping section. But in the Device section it clearly states that when a device is placed overlapping a ship it is placed under it. Period. This is a clear answer to what happens when a device opverlaps a ship when placed.

But it does not address mines specifically. But the next point does. If a devce that detonates is placed under more that one ship it detonates immediately.

So the rules actually did answer the question, and it should never have been sent.

But it was, and someone answered it with an answer that contradicts the rules.

For what it is worth I actually think that placing any object uder a ship should count as the ship overlapping it. This would be the most consistent way to handle all objects that are dropped or launched. I would just like the RRG to be updated to reflect this.

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@StephenEsven - ok. how does it contradict the rules, though?

while i agree that the question is already answered in the original rules, the answer expands a bit more on how we're supposed to handle situations like it, clearly stating that the ship overlaps the device if the device overlaps the ship.

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The rules do not say that a ship overlaps an object when it is placed underneath it.

And the rules for devices explicitly states that it must be placed underneath more than one ship to detonate immediately.

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