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Captain Lackwit

V-19 Torrent study: How to utilize?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

 What a waste of design space. 

No, it's not.

Discovering what part of each ship's kit works the best is exactly what the game should be about.

If it turns out that the generics are the way to go, then that is what the V-19's role is.  Not every piece of cardboard in the game needs to be gold, and moreover, those "useless" pilots might be great in Epic, or at the very least fun elements of the game for people who don't mind playing B-lists for a little fun.

Lastly, it does sound like people can figure out a good way to use them, if they don't just decide not to "on paper."

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Have been playing Republic for a couple weeks now. Originally had two Jedi + an Arc. Then switched to 2 Gold Squadron Troopers and the list performs significantly better. If you accept the Torrents are going to die regardless and just throw them into the middle it buys your Jedi time to get into position and thin the enemy numbers a littl, making the end game a little easier. And they tend to survive a lot longer than a single Arc which makes them a real pain. The best thing though is when your opponent finally kills one and you get to tell them they've just scored a whopping 25 points. ;)

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Posted (edited)

Tried Ahsoka with 7B and R2, two 104th Arcs and two GST, all clones naked. Made 3-1 at a small local tournament (16 players), finished 3rd, lost to the 4 I5 Resitance list that won the event.

It's a very fun list to fly. You can switch Ahsoka for Windu or Kenobi with CLT, depending on your preference. Never used Ahsoka's ability on anyone but herself.

The GST are not amazing but well worth their cost. They take more shot to take down than if I'd switch them for a third Arc, and with five hull, two agility, and the ability to evade, they are pretty resistant despise being crits magnet. Take an evade with a damaged GST that your opponents want to finish  and it will probably take one more shot to take it down, meaning one less shot on the Jedi or the Arcs. 

Having 5 ships on the board also means that, if the Jedi take a few hits on the first volley, he can desengage easily to take is shield back with R2 and your opponents still have 4 ships to deal with.

 Not a very easy list to fly in formation, as you have two slow ships, two medium bases that are a bit faster by nature, and the Jedi who want to go full throttle, but I like it a lot.

Edited by Xorn

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11 hours ago, DR4CO said:

1) Bring two Jedi aces of choice.

2) Fill in remaining points with a pair of Gold Squadron Troopers.

3) Throw the V-19s at people and give them a choice: joust them and give the Jedi a free pass onto a flank, or let the V-19s get free shots while the Jedi go evasive and probably find their way onto a flank anyway.

The i2 V-19s are fine provided you treat them like the grunts they are and don't expect the world from them. They exist to give your opponent a blob of hit points to deal with before they can safely move on to your real threats, get in some blocks (and they're better at that than they first look, given that unlike a Z-95, their barrel roll is white) and/or score some free damage. And with 2 agility, 5 health and an evade action, they actually take a reasonable amount of effort to kill.

The problem with the ship is that everything except the i2 is horrendously overcosted, which makes it really one-dimensional. The i3 pays 4 points for +1 initiative and an EPT, where almost every other ship pays 2 points for that privilege. Poor little Tucker pays 6 points just to get a pilot ability -- a pretty good pilot ability, to be fair, but it's not worth that much. He's still better off than Oddball, though, who's paying 13 points for a decidedly average ability, an EPT, and extra initiative on a ship that's not really geared to take advantage of it.

I agree with all of this.

Everything but the GST seems overpriced.

The biggest strength of the GST is getting shot at.  Dawdle them along, and either have uncontested shots (not major ones, but 2-dice uncontested can add up in 2e), or else your opponent is putting maybe 3 shots into a 25 point ship rather than actually-important Jedi.

The dial isn't good, but it doesn't need to be good.  One strong thing about the dial, though?  The 4-straight is White.  Most other bad-dial ships have either a red 4-straight, or else don't have a 4-straight at all.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Xorn said:

Tried Ahsoka with 7B and R2, two 104th Arcs and two GST, all clones naked. Made 3-1 at a small local tournament (16 players), finished 3rd, lost to the 4 I5 Resitance list that won the event.

It's a very fun list to fly. You can switch Ahsoka for Windu or Kenobi with CLT, depending on your preference. Never used Ahsoka's ability on anyone but herself.

My first Republic list was 2x GST, 2x 104, and Obi with CLT and R2; won two casual games.  Generic ARCs are decent jousters.  Obi was fun, but I can certainly fly it better.  The Torrents absorbed more fire than they ought to have.

208+V38+{Ace} and V38+{2 Aces} seem like solid enough archetypes.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)

Played against a sinker w/ shield ug and vtg, tucker with prockets, and 4 v19 generics.
Sinker. White br and evade defines the point cost.

Deceptively solid little buggers @25 pts with a re-roll on attack.

I barely won and mostly on rock placement and approach.  Flew Jake (cs pred), 2x ps1 (cs), Han light (r2, Leia, EU)

 

Edited by Cr0aker

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10 hours ago, knute said:

And sometimes they're not just filler, they're the whole shebang. 

Player at a Hyperspace Trial in Orlando last weekend won the whole thing with Sinker, 104th, and 4 GSTs. He said his opponents usually made the mistake if trying to go after Sinker first, and if he survived (which he usually did) the shots back on the initial joust were devastating. 

He also said that the GSTs were good when they got into the scrum and blocked opposing ships. GSTs are apparently tough enough against unmodded rolls. 

I was at that Hyperspace, I'm so glad I didn't have to deal with that particular monster.

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6 hours ago, Xorn said:

Tried Ahsoka with 7B and R2, two 104th Arcs and two GST, all clones naked. Made 3-1 at a small local tournament (16 players), finished 3rd, lost to the 4 I5 Resitance list that won the event.

It's a very fun list to fly. You can switch Ahsoka for Windu or Kenobi with CLT, depending on your preference. Never used Ahsoka's ability on anyone but herself.

The GST are not amazing but well worth their cost. They take more shot to take down than if I'd switch them for a third Arc, and with five hull, two agility, and the ability to evade, they are pretty resistant despise being crits magnet. Take an evade with a damaged GST that your opponents want to finish  and it will probably take one more shot to take it down, meaning one less shot on the Jedi or the Arcs. 

Having 5 ships on the board also means that, if the Jedi take a few hits on the first volley, he can desengage easily to take is shield back with R2 and your opponents still have 4 ships to deal with.

 Not a very easy list to fly in formation, as you have two slow ships, two medium bases that are a bit faster by nature, and the Jedi who want to go full throttle, but I like it a lot.

Try Luminara in there. She actually is super impactful as a support piece. The crit mitigation alone adds at least another turn to each torrent.

She doesn't do as much damage as Ahsoka herself, but each turn there's one more ship than should be on your team, the more damage you do.

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16 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

. The entire platform is overcosted. These desperately need a cost reduction by at most 3-4 points across the board if you ask me. B

Do you mean all of the VTs or just the named?   At 25 points the cheapest is very good for its cost.  It’s more durable than a Tie fighter.

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The force is telling me that running 4 of these is the way to go.  Has anyone tried 4 Torrents + 2 Jedi? Or 4 + Sinker and a Jedi like Sansee?

For that matter, has anyone tried 8 of the generics? 

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Posted (edited)

I like them for a few reasons

1. They are tanky little space mechs

2. They are 25 pts

3. They Talon and K Turn good

4. They get ignored and set up locks/blocks

5. They can Link Roll Evade

6. They look unique

7. They can move slow

8. They are Clone Troopas

mario-bros-clipart-jpeg-676136-9053667.j

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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6 hours ago, AlexW said:

Do you mean all of the VTs or just the named?   At 25 points the cheapest is very good for its cost.  It’s more durable than a Tie fighter.

Even the base V-19 might be slightly over. The TIE's dial is fantastic, keep that in mind.

8 hours ago, SavouryRain said:

Try Luminara in there. She actually is super impactful as a support piece. The crit mitigation alone adds at least another turn to each torrent.

She doesn't do as much damage as Ahsoka herself, but each turn there's one more ship than should be on your team, the more damage you do.

Luminara is preeeeetty bonkers, very good stuff. Might run her, Sinker, and some GSTs.

5 hours ago, dadocollin said:

The force is telling me that running 4 of these is the way to go.  Has anyone tried 4 Torrents + 2 Jedi? Or 4 + Sinker and a Jedi like Sansee?

For that matter, has anyone tried 8 of the generics? 

A bunch of I2s with zero rerolls, but 40 hull... Bold, but maybe very stupid. Will try that now.
...
Well that went shockingly well.

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On 4/20/2019 at 3:45 AM, migs6000 said:

I've played with them twice now, not impressed. The dial is garbage and it's a crit magnet. 

Cracked me up, I couldn't have put it down in a better way lol :D

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Even the base V-19 might be slightly over. The TIE's dial is fantastic, keep that in mind

I do realize that the tie has an overall better dial (though we could discuss what the one straight and banks add), but the VT has a significantly better suite of actions.  And, while I wouldn’t recommend an upgrade necessarily, it does have a better upgrade bar with the addition of the missile.

Edited by AlexW

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7 hours ago, AlexW said:

I do realize that the tie has an overall better dial (though we could discuss what the tone straight and banks add), but the VT has a significantly better suite of actions.  And, while I wouldn’t recommend an upgrade necessarily, it does have a better upgrade bar with the addition of the missile.

Fair.

But the others do need a reduction.

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Torrents are squarely in the not great, but "interesting" category.  Just enough health to live one or two turns longer than you expect.  Just fast enough to catch your opponent off guard with that 4 fwd.  Dial is just good enough to be useful with the 3k/2 talon.  Linked barrel into evade is a pretty good action line to keep them on the board longer than they should.  2 dice primary is just good enough to be a threat and punch in damage when you get those range one shots on things.

They are sort of like z-95's that want to fly like a bwing.  It takes a bit to recenter your purpose with them.  When you put them into a list with other things that can threaten from the edges or just setup a firing line behind them they make great expendable filler that you are daring your opponent to shoot.  I often find myself just shoving them into range 1, taking a TL and saying "deal with me".  If my opponent ignores, I've got an uncontested range one shot with mods on them.  If they don't, they still probably survive the exchange and I'm k turning behind them with a TL for the next turn (or the one after it with a TL and a focus).   They make great space filler and if they can half damage something while only giving up 13 MOV in exchange (half points) they more than do their job.  It's not a flashy or fancy ship.  It's just a humble little clone happy to go out and sacrifice itself for the republic.  Or not.  They often squeak by on 1 health for a lot longer than they ever have a right to. 

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Posted (edited)

Probably been mentioned somewhere here, but one thing about VTs is they really don't fly all that well with Jedi.   You can put them in a list with Jedi, but flying them in close proximity is a good way to limit your own Jedi options.    They even struggle a bit in proximity with arcs since the arcs take up a lot of space (so they move faster) and actually have a better dial,  In most other factions the fodder filler has a dial that works pretty well with their aces or at least most of the rest of the faction.   I wonder if this is actually making a bad dial feel worse to people when they are flying them in a mixed formation.     I've found they work better in a very loose/wide formation that gives space for maneuvering, and if with Jedi, coming in from separate angles.

Edited by AlexW

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, viedit said:

Torrents are squarely in the not great, but "interesting" category.  Just enough health to live one or two turns longer than you expect.  Just fast enough to catch your opponent off guard with that 4 fwd.  Dial is just good enough to be useful with the 3k/2 talon.  Linked barrel into evade is a pretty good action line to keep them on the board longer than they should.  2 dice primary is just good enough to be a threat and punch in damage when you get those range one shots on things.

They are sort of like z-95's that want to fly like a bwing.  It takes a bit to recenter your purpose with them.  When you put them into a list with other things that can threaten from the edges or just setup a firing line behind them they make great expendable filler that you are daring your opponent to shoot.  I often find myself just shoving them into range 1, taking a TL and saying "deal with me".  If my opponent ignores, I've got an uncontested range one shot with mods on them.  If they don't, they still probably survive the exchange and I'm k turning behind them with a TL for the next turn (or the one after it with a TL and a focus).   They make great space filler and if they can half damage something while only giving up 13 MOV in exchange (half points) they more than do their job.  It's not a flashy or fancy ship.  It's just a humble little clone happy to go out and sacrifice itself for the republic.  Or not.  They often squeak by on 1 health for a lot longer than they ever have a right to. 

That's exactly right, yeah. They're shockingly good at staying alive if you want them to. Flying against them, you literally can not underestimate them, but you can't avoid what they're covering for either.

2 hours ago, AlexW said:

Probably been mentioned somewhere here, but one thing about VTs is they really don't fly all that well with Jedi.   You can put them in a list with Jedi, but flying them in close proximity is a good way to limit your own Jedi options.    They even struggle a bit in proximity with arcs since the arcs take up a lot of space (so they move faster) and actually have a better dial,  In most other factions the fodder filler has a dial that works pretty well with their aces or at least most of the rest of the faction.   I wonder if this is actually making a bad dial feel worse to people when they are flying them in a mixed formation.     I've found they work better in a very loose/wide formation that gives space for maneuvering, and if with Jedi, coming in from separate angles.

Call me insane.
But I don't fly them expecting not to bump into each other. All I need them to do is clear their stress or strain- focus, TL is great but a bonus if anything. if they're blocking, they're messing up plans all around. I like when they mess up plans by being annoying.

Edited by Captain Lackwit

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, AlexW said:

Probably been mentioned somewhere here, but one thing about VTs is they really don't fly all that well with Jedi. 

But but but but but....

The V-19 was designed to be a light escort to nimble Delta-7 interceptors piloted by Jedi Knights, and has a unique flight profile to reflect this role.

and

Blue Squadron's elite clone pilots are trained to fly their V-19s in conjunction with Jedi and often support famous commanders like Anakin Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano.

Edited by XPav

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3 hours ago, XPav said:

But but but but but....

The V-19 was designed to be a light escort to nimble Delta-7 interceptors piloted by Jedi Knights, and has a unique flight profile to reflect this role.

and

Blue Squadron's elite clone pilots are trained to fly their V-19s in conjunction with Jedi and often support famous commanders like Anakin Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano.

They do fly well with Jedi in my experience.

But not in formation.

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Posted (edited)

So anyway. Tried this build. 2 Golds, Ahsoka and Anakin, vs Feethan+Kraken and a bunch of grapple shell vultures. Deltas... are a crazy ship. You can't take shots like regular aces, you gotta be really careful with them, but they're quite murderous at R1 with 4 dice TL Force. Generally takes two attacks to down a Vulture also (considering normal dice). 

 

The golds were utterly underwhelming. They did basically zero damage the whole game. And then died. Yes it let me get into end game with two one health Jedi but still. 

Edited by Blail Blerg

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