Shugenja School Discussion

[Longes 11]

Which Shugenja school in your opinion is The Best? Perhaps with the "at what" qualifier.

To me it seems like Kitsu mediums are the best all-around school, as their school technique lets them be ultra-flexible by pulling any invocation on the fly, and their mastery ability just lets them be a new character whenever they want.

Isawas are good at pulling out loads of bonus successes by lowering the TN, but I can't really say if this is useful or not.

Scorpion school gets an invisibility spell out the gate, so they are better ninjas than ninjas.

What about other shugenjas? What are they good at? Are any over or underpowered?

What school should I pick if I want to be a bushi wizard, dueling muggles with my elemental katana and chewing jade?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Longes

[Magnus Grendel 11,673]

2 hours ago, Longes said:

What school should I pick if I want to be a bushi wizard, dueling muggles with my elemental katana and chewing jade?

Kuni, almost without question. They're double-tagged Shujenga/Bushi for a reason. Firstly, they're one of the only schools to get free technique-class access to Kata and Invocations and a rank of martial arts (melee) as an option in their basic skills training; meaning that not only can you create a flaming katana, but you can then use the bloody thing effectively after you've done so, and if they're facing a tainted opponent they're literally one of the most awesome characters going even without magic since they get to change [school rank]  results to  results, every check every round. 

 

As a rule, if it's a once-per-session or once-per-scene ability (like the Kitsu), it's less suited for a skirmish than one you can use repeatedly (like the Kuni or Iuchi) unless it's one you can use to deliver a fight-ending kaboom on a high-rank invocation (like the Isawa). In downtime scenes (where you only get one action) or narrative scenes (where invocations aren't repeatable anyway) it's less of an issue and flexibility of effect (to solve random narrative demands) is more useful than reliability of casting the same thing over and over.

2 hours ago, Longes said:

Isawas are good at pulling out loads of bonus successes by lowering the TN, but I can't really say if this is useful or not.

It's incredibly useful. Something like a Fortunist Monk can get bonus successes, but that's nowhere near as good as lowering the TN because you still need to pass in the first place. An Isawa can afford to take a check with a TN far higher than would normally be possible and still get a credible chance of a 'basic' pass - and for a shujenga that means importune invocations; meaning that Isawa Elementalists can actually afford to do try invocations they don't know on a regular basis and actually expect to pass them, but they can still use it to invoke a high rank invocation easily instead. 

 

2 hours ago, Longes said:

What about other shugenjas? What are they good at? Are any over or underpowered?

The Asahina - post the FAQ clarification - is a lot more terrifying than I first thought.

Quote

 

Q: When does the Asahina Artificer’s school
ability apply?
A: It applies to invocations that use the listed
keywords to do the following (and other checks with
related narrative function):

• Summon an illusion (e.g., Token of Memory, Matsu’s Battlecry)
• Summon an object, which in this case means any manifestation of an element that is not a being like a Manifest Kami (e.g., Blessed Wind, Katana of Fire, Earthquake)
• Augment an object (e.g., Cloak of Night, Armor of Radiance)
• Awaken an object (e.g., the school’s Mastery Ability)

 

Or basically, pretty much every 'combat' invocation aside from "Rise, [Element]".

Getting a whole shoal of free kept  on elemental weapon invocations is especially nice, as most of them include the ability to spend  to immediately get a free swing with your new weapon. Basically, look at any given invocation. If it has a big list of  options or an + option, the Asahina make it awesome. If not, pass.

 

The Agasha - good for flexible, relatively difficult, 'tactical' invocations (heal/reposition/invisibility/etc). They don't specialise in any specific effect, but their ability basically means you have a few uses of 'always-use-your-best-ring' regardless of the element of the invocation. Which is very nice where you want invocations which give a more tactical effect than just "have damage to the face" but which require an element you have a poor rank in. They (like the isawa) are very good generalists as a result (albeit for different reasons because unlike Kitsu or Isawa they don't do importune stuff well). Rewards buying lots of varied invocation techniques, or ones which pair well with generic elemental effects of another element (like spending water  to reduce a target's physical resistance)

 

Kitsu - much like Isawa, they're great at importune invocations - but whilst they're even better, they're only good at relatively low-level importune invocations, and their ability doesn't help them with stuff they already know, whilst the isawa can drop a TN reduction onto a high-rank known invocation instead. 

 

Soshi - it's all about cheating (In a Scorpion Clan school? The Shock!). Cloak of Night is great but it's not really 'more-ninja-than-ninja' - it only lasts a couple of rounds, after all, and any shujenga can get it (it's only a rank 1 air invocation). What makes them far more awesome is the Kami's Whisper. Being able to use invocations against a compromised opponent without them realising you did (or at rank 2-3, without anyone realising you did) is a massively powerful ability in formal settings if you can figure out was to use it; letting you discretely heal your champion  or biting steel their blade during a duel, for example.

 

Yogo - Prepared Wards are great just because you can go into battle with a couple of invocations 'pre-cast'. Especially if you have time to invest in offerings and assistance to bring the 'big guns' stowed and ready and can rely on simple things that have low TN when you're actually in the fight itself. Rewards going for the nastiest, most powerful invocations you can - even importune ones - and preparing them when you have time to make things easier. Opening a skirmish with Fury of Osano-Wo and Breath of the Fire Dragon in quick succession means that the fact you don't actually have anything you can cast easily 'on spec' shouldn't matter so much....

 

Iuchi - much like the isawa, few things match the simple benefit of a TN reduction. Meishodo talismans don't reduce it by much but they apply every single time you use the invocation, so if it's for a classic wizard-esque "have a fireball to the face" invocation which you're likely to find yourself throwing every single round of a conflict scene, it'll pay for itself over and again many times in failures avoided and bonus successes added. Unlike the other school traditions, this one encourages you to find a relatively low-level invocation and focus on it in particular. The ability to hand your abilities off to another shujenga is dependent on party composition, but shouldn't be overlooked as you can pass a relatively obscure invocation that you know and your friend doesn't, and instead of +1 TN for importune invocations they get -1 TN for the talisman; moving the TN by 2 in this system is a huge shift, especially for invocations which count bonus success towards their effect.

 

Storm Fleet  - very specialised in area effect devastation. A lot of easy attack invocations are 'every character at range X' - which is a problem when your mates are in the blast zone. A Storm Fleet Tide Seer gets at least one free exclusion, even on those techniques which don't normally have the option (like cleansing fire).

 

Seppun - unreliable but potentially devastating at higher ranks. It depends on what you can roll on a TN1 Theology check  - if you can get a bonus  in your pocket for a check later in the session it's nice but if you can find yourself with a  or  result to drop into a check whenever you like during the session, you can feel justified in going "Everything is proceeding as I have forseen...." in your best Ian McDiarmud impression at the appropriate moment! Don't forget that activating the school ability is a Theology Check, so stuff like Sixth Sense or Superstition can come into play, either improving the roll or handing you extra void points for the session.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Magnus Grendel

[Longes 11]

Seppun is an odd school. It seems extremely unreliable because you have to pick a specific ring, but if you do get the ring right - anything you rolled is good. You can apply the prediction dice to any character, which means you can buff your friends or make your enemies fail.

[Magnus Grendel 11,673]

4 minutes ago, Longes said:

Seppun is an odd school. It seems extremely unreliable because you have to pick a specific ring, but if you do get the ring right - anything you rolled is good. You can apply the prediction dice to any character, which means you can buff your friends or make your enemies fail.

I missed that. In that case, you're right; even a blank result is very useful as it allows you to play Niten Adept and 'nope' your opponent's explosive successes after they've rolled them.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Magnus Grendel

[Black_Rabbit_Inle 166]

I thought I'd mention that the Agasha mystic school can be very useful in combat should one of your rings not be available for some reason, or perhaps you want to use initiative abilities from a certain ring while using a spell of another ring.

Also, be careful with the Soshi illusionist school.. people may not know that the soshi is using an invocation, but the effects of the invocation may still be obvious.  With that said, anyone who is looking for the magic user in a skirmish is likely to overlook the soshi.

  I'm not sure about Yogo wardmaster.. preparing invocations ahead of time seems a little useless to me to begin with..  I guess the real advantage to this is that you don't have to roll for the invocation during the battle, so you already know how effective it will be, and also you don't get the strife during combat..  but I don't feel like the strife is too much of a factor anyway.  With that said, I believe this school also gets skulk while not being considered a "shinobi" school.. The school not being shinobi might matter depending on the gm, while the skulk ability will allow the shugenja to disappear by casting an air spell which provides obscuring terrain.  Still..  I feel the wardmaster school is situational at best, and the Yogo Preserver is clearly a more powerful choice.

To me, the biggest question is the Moto school.  They have what looks to be the most powerful ability in the game, but give up access to fire and water spells?  Now you consider that they exist in the clan with the Iuchi who can pass on the ability to use invocations that one doesn't normally posses and this makes them very powerful.. but how many games are going to have both an Iuchi and a Moto shugenja?  Also, while it's easy to understand how powerful the Moto ability would be when combined with fire or water spells, water is supposed to be the unicorn's primary element.. it just doesn't feel right to me.. and yet how else do you balance that school ability? Is it even balanced as it is?

  As for the Iuchi school, I go back and forth as to whether I believe it's ability is powerful or not..  Now keep in mind that my major people to compare the Iuchi to are a Kuni and a Isawa.  The Kuni mostly acts as a front line fighter, the Isawa wants to burn everything, and the Iuchi specializes in transportation and utility (including healing) invocations..  however, both the Kuni and Isawa actually have the healing magic that my Iuchi has a talisman for, so they just don't need the talisman.  Basically, this is my way of saying that the second part of the Iuchi ability is not only dependant on having other shugenja around, but those shugenja also have to want to use the talisman.. this means that only the first part of the Iuchi's ability (-1 to TN of invocations for which they have the talisman) can actually be judged..  and this is actually one of the most reliable shugenja abilities to judge.. it means that the Iuchi isn't going to "spike" damage as much as a Isawa might, but they are capable of being slightly more effective each and every round.. assuming they "spam" one or two invocations.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I missed that. In that case, you're right; even a blank result is very useful as it allows you to play Niten Adept and 'nope' your opponent's explosive successes after they've rolled them.

My exact plan as soon as I saw that ability. It took me a little bit to realize they could use it for their own/friends benefit as well.

Maybe that's because I GM more than play...