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Possible idea for the squadron problem (if you call it a problem)

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8 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

If it wasn't for the size restriction, I'd love it on Raider-Is and Torp Hammerheads with the right build.

The problem is the opportunity cost of External Racks, really. You could use Flechettes on Raider-Is right now, but the opportunity cost there just sucks (not even getting into the fact that the meta is terrible for Raider-Is right now). If you hit a squadron fleet and if you can get the Raider flak to go off, Flechettes can be amazing. But otherwise, they're and you're wondering why you gave up External Racks for them.

When I have taken it on an MC-75 I've generally been happy with the results, but also thought "why didn't I just bring ExRacks?"

The ship that wants it more than any is the Pelta Assault.  Ord Pods would be great there.

So yeah, something similar, but in a more accessible slot would be amazing.

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Taking anti-squad upgrades usually works best supporting your own squads.

Im sure ordnance pods can't go on small ships because demolisher would have pushed squadrons out of the game with that upgrade.

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My experience is that most of the anti squad upgrades require your opponents squads to oblige you: first, by engaging where they can be shot; and second, staying there.

They don't work in a vacuum - they definitely need to be supported by squads - but even then, Intel alone can largely render those upgrades useless. 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

If it wasn't for the size restriction, I'd love it on Raider-Is and Torp Hammerheads with the right build.

The problem is the opportunity cost of External Racks, really. You could use Flechettes on Raider-Is right now, but the opportunity cost there just sucks (not even getting into the fact that the meta is terrible for Raider-Is right now). If you hit a squadron fleet and if you can get the Raider flak to go off, Flechettes can be amazing. But otherwise, they're and you're wondering why you gave up External Racks for them.

I agree with this ex-racks can be used against squadrons so I think it is such a auto includ on the raider because it could be used both ways. However with something like this:

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Instigator  ( 4  points) 
-  Iden Versio  ( 6  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points) 
= 61 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
= 32 total squadron cost

I think you can  get flechette Torpedoes off pretty consistently and have the Ties clean up.  The Raider can still do something against ships and the ties give you another 2 deployments and I have been surprised at the damage output of 32 points of Ties vs ships before it's generally 2 damage every turn and if its all ship I can hide them in the arch of a ship and they can ether flack the ties or shoot my ship. Iden Versio is not out yet, but I think she points to FFG understanding the problem, and at least trying to resolve it.

Edited by xero989

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6 minutes ago, rasproteus said:

My experience is that most of the anti squad upgrades require your opponents squads to oblige you: first, by engaging where they can be shot; and second, staying there.

They don't work in a vacuum - they definitely need to be supported by squads - but even then, Intel alone can largely render those upgrades useless. 

This is true, and a big reason that black die or single die flak just isn't very effective. 

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Weren't raid tokens also supposed to curb the strength of the squadron game? If the raid mechanic has failed to achieve this purpose, then what are the reasons? Also, why do the rebels not have a squadron that can issue raid tokens? 

Since Tokra suggested upgrade cards to help solve the squadron issue, then here is another proposed upgrade:

Ion slot: Comms Disruptor

Blue crit- enemy ship cannot use squadron command dial (but can still use token) for the remainder of this round. 

 

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************************

Fleet support:

Battle techs (10 points)*possibly unique*

After deploying fleets you may discard this card to choose one friendly ship. That ship can discard any non-title upgrade. If it does it may equip a different upgrade of the same type.

************************

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here is a interesting one to help generic squadrons

Swarm tactics 6 points

Squadron command if you activate only generic squadrons during this activation you may add 2 to your squadron value.

Edit: Something kinda cool would be if they just added doctrines to fleet building like your flagship can equip a number of doctorns equal to its comand value or something that add more special abilities to your fleet like swarm tactics or superior fire power, hit and run etc. Almost 100% sure that wont happen but would be cool, and would help the factions feel even more different from each other as you could have some unique doctrines for each faction and also some generic.

Edited by xero989

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17 minutes ago, xero989 said:

Here is a interesting one to help generic squadrons

Swarm tactics 6 points

Squadron command if you activate only generic squadrons during this activation you may add 2 to your squadron value.

lol was just thinking about this same idea but had this

 

****************

Offensive Retrofit

something something hangar deck:

Squadcommand: you may exhaust this card to activate up to 2 additional non-unique squadrons during this command. 

****************

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4 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

lol was just thinking about this same idea but had this

 

****************

Offensive Retrofit

something something hangar deck:

Squadcommand: you may exhaust this card to activate up to 2 additional non-unique squadrons during this command. 

****************

I think it would work I mean the reason we dont see more quanity of fighters Generics is because you can't push them all like right now 8 is really the max squadrons you see because you need to have the squadron value to push them, but if you give them the ability to push more squadrons but they need to be generic you might start seeing swarm lists to overwhile ace tokens and maybe a medium squadron wing built around a huge generic alpha strike.

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29 minutes ago, xero989 said:

I think it would work I mean the reason we dont see more quanity of fighters Generics is because you can't push them all like right now 8 is really the max squadrons you see because you need to have the squadron value to push them, but if you give them the ability to push more squadrons but they need to be generic you might start seeing swarm lists to overwhile ace tokens and maybe a medium squadron wing built around a huge generic alpha strike.

Exactly! Along those lines then maybe this as well could help relieve squad activation economy...

 

************

Support Team

Fighter Wing Specialists

At the beginning of the squadron phase you may choose up to 2 non unique squadrons at distance 1-5. Those squadrons have Rogue until the end of the turn.

*************

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I’m not saying it is anything related to this topic, but one can hope. To me, one of the Rebellion in the Rim cards that’s too fuzzy to see (something hanger deck? The one with TIEs flying out of a hanger) could very well be something along the offensive retrofit or support team slots suggested above. 

Adding my own words to what is clearly a pixelated mess, I have made up the following, “when a non-unique squadron with *Keyword* at distance 1-X...lots of unreadable pixels and like 5-6 more lines that I won’t guess at”

Maybe they’ve already thought of something along these lines or maybe I’m just itching to figure out all the other new cards and get a good ‘ole fashioned “There’s too many of them” TIE swarm.

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I was thinking that you could possibly have say 30 points in "Auxiliary Support" which is on top of your 400 point fleet. The idea being, when you see your opponents core fleet, you can adjust/swap out upgrade cards or squadrons with what you have in your Auxiliary Support list as long as the core fleet doesn't exceed 400 points.

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19 hours ago, Hetzen said:

I was thinking that you could possibly have say 30 points in "Auxiliary Support" which is on top of your 400 point fleet. The idea being, when you see your opponents core fleet, you can adjust/swap out upgrade cards or squadrons with what you have in your Auxiliary Support list as long as the core fleet doesn't exceed 400 points.

Like a sideboard in MTG and other card games?
I'm down for that!

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Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2019 at 11:33 AM, shmitty said:

When I have taken it on an MC-75 I've generally been happy with the results, but also thought "why didn't I just bring ExRacks?"

The ship that wants it more than any is the Pelta Assault.  Ord Pods would be great there.

So yeah, something similar, but in a more accessible slot would be amazing.

I pulled a Palpatine and made it legal for most of my casual games, and my loadout was Raider I with Kallus, OE, Ord Pods, and Instigator. I swear getting attacked by a Decimator-equivalent twice hurts for aces. Still, it didn't seem OP. It just seemed like the Raider had finally done what it was intended to do since Wave 2 came out.

Edited by DunaMoose

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2 hours ago, DunaMoose said:

Like a sideboard in MTG and other card games?
I'm down for that!

I wasn't sure what a sideboard was. I don't play MTG(?) games, but it sounds the same.

It would certainly add another dimension to fleet building.

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:31 AM, Hetzen said:

I was thinking that you could possibly have say 30 points in "Auxiliary Support" which is on top of your 400 point fleet. The idea being, when you see your opponents core fleet, you can adjust/swap out upgrade cards or squadrons with what you have in your Auxiliary Support list as long as the core fleet doesn't exceed 400 points.

I don’t think that FFG would change anything that would make games any longer, which this certainly would.

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6 hours ago, Hetzen said:

I wasn't sure what a sideboard was. I don't play MTG(?) games, but it sounds the same.

It would certainly add another dimension to fleet building.

Sideboard is where in a tournament, in between games, you can excange cards with the main deck. 
MTG is Magic the Gathering.

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