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mazz0

How will the droid control ship work?

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Will taking it out disable all the droids?  More reasonably if less thematically, will it buff all friendly droids?  What do people think?

I am also expecting lots of unfunny jokes about Little Anni here.

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Posted (edited)

Figure that Droid fighters will be 3 speed, 3HP, 3 reds against squads, and 1 red against ships. Probably swarm and a Droid keyword.

 

Droid could be something along the lines of cannot move during the squadron phase unless range 1-?? Of a Droid Controller. This makes it so that they still shoot if an enemy is near but lack the independent thought to search for an enemy  

 

Then make Droid Controller a 4-ish point upgrade that allows you to activate and additional 1-2 squadrons with the Droid keyword during a squadron command.

 

Then the Lucrehulk can be squadron 4 and have whatever slot is needed for the Droid Controller. That way it isn’t broken when good squads come out for CIS, but it can thematically throw a LOT of the garbage Droid ships at someone. 

Edited by Church14

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Easiest way to capture the thematic usage would be that Vulture Droids cannot activate in the squadron phase at all.  IE., they can only be activated by a ship.

I wouldn't hate seeing that as a distinct option, though, rather than a flat rule.  As @Drasnighta points out - they went decentralized pretty much right before the actual war, so the old centralized-control fighters should be rarer.  Maybe two different squadron cards for them - one at (who knows) 6 pts that works like regular fighters, and another at 4 pts (or whatever) with similar stats but a 'Centralized Command' trait that prevents it from activating in the squadron phase at all, so the Seps could choose to bring them or not if they wanted.

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1 hour ago, xanderf said:

Easiest way to capture the thematic usage would be that Vulture Droids cannot activate in the squadron phase at all.  IE., they can only be activated by a ship.

I wouldn't hate seeing that as a distinct option, though, rather than a flat rule.  As @Drasnighta points out - they went decentralized pretty much right before the actual war, so the old centralized-control fighters should be rarer.  Maybe two different squadron cards for them - one at (who knows) 6 pts that works like regular fighters, and another at 4 pts (or whatever) with similar stats but a 'Centralized Command' trait that prevents it from activating in the squadron phase at all, so the Seps could choose to bring them or not if they wanted.

They better come in a **** big pack of them then, like ten squadrons.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Admiral Theia said:

They better come in a **** big pack of them then, like ten squadrons.

On the one hand - that wouldn't be hard to do, given the Seps don't have that many distinct fighter types anyway, so having twice as many of each type in a pack is easy enough.

On the other hand, though - the joke @Church14 is making there is a fair point.  That many stands on the table will be...challenging.

Maybe we instead get a new 4-model-to-a-stand sort of thing and FFG just argues "Vulture Droid squadrons have more fighters"?  IE., maybe a TIE Fighter squadron worth 8 pts consists of 10-14 fighters, but a Vulture Droid squadron is also worth 8 pts and consists of 20-30 fighters.  No in-game effect to that at all, only difference is that they (for aesthetic reasons) put 4 models to a stand instead of 3...?

(TBH, that may be required for another reason, too.  By canonical lore, the Clone Wars era ships carried shirtloads more fighters than Rebellion era.  I think the Lucrehulks were supposedly able to carry 20 times as many fighters as an Imperial Star Destroyer?  Even the Venators carried 4 to 5 times as many fighters.  But all these numbers only ever stated in raw ship counts, nobody ever bothers to talk about how they are organized.  So maybe simply saying 'Clone Wars squadrons were made up of many more individual fighters than Rebellion-era squadrons' is the way to go...Armada, after all, doesn't really care about how many units are represented by a stand...it's just "a squadron", whatever that means - and that meaning can, and probably does, vary.)

Edited by xanderf

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1 minute ago, xanderf said:

On the one hand - that wouldn't be hard to do, given the Seps don't have that many distinct fighter types anyway, so having twice as many of each type in a pack is easy enough.

On the other hand, though - the joke @Church14 is making there is a fair point.  That many stands on the table will be...challenging.

Maybe we just get a new 4-model-to-a-stand sort of thing and FFG just argues "Vulture Droid squadrons have more fighters".  IE., maybe a TIE Fighter squadron worth 8 pts consists of 10-14 fighters, but a Vulture Droid squadron is also worth 8 pts and consists of 20-30 fighters.  No in-game effect to that at all, only difference is that they (for aesthetic reasons) put 4 models to a stand instead of 3...?

(TBH, that may be required for another reason, too.  By canonical lore, the Clone Wars era ships carried shirtloads more fighters than Rebellion era.  I think the Lucrehulks were supposedly able to carry 20 times as many fighter as an Imperial Star Destroyer?  Even the Venators carried 4 to 5 times as many.  So maybe just saying 'Clone Wars squadrons were made up of many more individual fighters than Rebellion-era squadrons' is the way to go...)

4 to a stand and “blah blah the stand just have more fighters in them” is a surprisingly good way to work it. 

 

Honestly, if you stick with my idea of 3 speed, 3HP, RRR/R for dice, Swarm, and a new keyword, the squadrons would be about 7 points a stand. So Z95 range, which usually isn’t a problem. 

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Honestly I'd like to see swarm squadrons. 6 hull, two attacks, double flak damage, when it reaches half health one attack. Counts as two for deployment 

Would let you do squad heavy cheap fighters without the headache

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4 hours ago, Church14 said:

Figure that Droid fighters will be 3 speed, 3HP, 3 reds against squads, and 1 red against ships. Probably swarm and a Droid keyword.

 

Droid could be something along the lines of cannot move during the squadron phase unless range 1-?? Of a Droid Controller. This makes it so that they still shoot if an enemy is near but lack the independent thought to search for an enemy  

 

Then make Droid Controller a 4-ish point upgrade that allows you to activate and additional 1-2 squadrons with the Droid keyword during a squadron command.

 

Then the Lucrehulk can be squadron 4 and have whatever slot is needed for the Droid Controller. That way it isn’t broken when good squads come out for CIS, but it can thematically throw a LOT of the garbage Droid ships at someone. 

I think this would be too strong. That would have the same average but swingier damage output than blues, just less likely to roll an accuracy. 

I envision vulture droids as proper trash mobs- either 2 blues or 2 reds (maybe with access to some kind of cheaper flight controllers in a different upgrade slot?), with 1 blue or 1 red anti-ship non-bomber and dirt cheap.

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21 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

if it's the core box squadron I'm sure we'll have plenty, I have so many fn x-wings. 

Same, but part of that is because I bought two cores.

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5 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Will taking it out disable all the droids?  More reasonably if less thematically, will it buff all friendly droids?  What do people think?

I am also expecting lots of unfunny jokes about Little Anni here.

What about something like an upgrade “droid control centre” that gives all friendly droid squadrons within range X the rogue keyword?

Or if Rogue sounds too powerful maybe give each fighter within X a Defense token.

Something that gives a reasonable bonus while active but not a game-ruining crippling if destroyed.

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34 minutes ago, elanmorintedronai said:

I think this would be too strong. That would have the same average but swingier damage output than blues, just less likely to roll an accuracy. 

I envision vulture droids as proper trash mobs- either 2 blues or 2 reds (maybe with access to some kind of cheaper flight controllers in a different upgrade slot?), with 1 blue or 1 red anti-ship non-bomber and dirt cheap.

Would it? Z95s are the exact same save for this new Droid keyword. Droid makes them weaker. Droid controllers makes them more easily activated and less weak if nearby for an additional cost. Give some, take some. 

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15 hours ago, Kani Kantai said:

What about something like an upgrade “droid control centre” that gives all friendly droid squadrons within range X the rogue keyword?

Or if Rogue sounds too powerful maybe give each fighter within X a Defense token.

Something that gives a reasonable bonus while active but not a game-ruining crippling if destroyed.

I think this may be the way to go. Create a droid control ship title that says you may activate "X droid" fighters in addition to your normal activations. Restrict to say, large base ships and above to cut down on abuses. Hahahaha.... All droids are rogue but restricted to range one of that ship only. Keeps close combat with that ship dangerous while still allowing for something with reds and blues to "safely" pound the controller. Keep fights cheap and disposable. This preserves the look of a ship covered in defensive droids but not so op that no one can get to it with other options. Shifts how fighters get used at a meta level. Ooh... enjoy my bomber swarm robot dog. Dangit, cannot get past all those pesky vultures. Now you counter swarm with As or TIEs to open defenses but lose that big bomber attack. Maybe control ship loses some (or all) fighter defenses in exchange ridiculous number of droids to encourage opponents to attempt to clean the droids off. Big take away is that droids and controller need to synergize well together but be somewhat dysfunctional when separated. Maybe droids that are out of range must attempt move into range of the nearest controller or have strength reduced in some way. Lose a dice, lose movement. Blah blah blah.  Enough ramblings from the Grand Admiral. Take my ideas, taken from Kani, and trash them and agree to their greatness.

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Or how about:

"Droid Control Center (offensive upgrade)- (Squad Command): Each squadron activation may activate two squadrons with the 'Droid' keyword."

So a ship with squad value of 4 could activate up to 8 "Droid" squads, or 2 non-droid and 4 droid, etc... No huge changes to game mechanics, but let swarms of cheap crappy Vulture droids have a dangerous alpha strike.

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I just had a moment of “what will the Buzz Droids” be represented by? A squadron with no attack dice, 1HP, and a scatter, but does damage if in base contact? A defensive retrofit?

 

Xwing has them as munitions, which isn’t easily represented.

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Or flip it round... Droid Control Center having a negative points cost, doubles the amount of squadrons it can control/ always can use a squadron token even if the ship doesnt have one,  but friendly squadrons can only be activated by a squadron command

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1 hour ago, RobertK said:

Or how about:

"Droid Control Center (offensive upgrade)- (Squad Command): Each squadron activation may activate two squadrons with the 'Droid' keyword."

So a ship with squad value of 4 could activate up to 8 "Droid" squads, or 2 non-droid and 4 droid, etc... No huge changes to game mechanics, but let swarms of cheap crappy Vulture droids have a dangerous alpha strike.

This is what I came up with when I was tinkering with custom TIE Droid rules.

Add a range restriction as well & reverts to move or shoot if control ship is destroyed.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2019 at 4:20 PM, Drasnighta said:

Assuming they ever go with Centralized command as a Rule...  I mean, they pretty well went straight to decentralized comedic droid brains right after that first battle for the rest of the War...

Drasnighta, can you win worlds just to make “Decentralized comedic droid brain” an official upgrade card?  

Please?

Edited by Kani Kantai

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My idea would be that the Droid control ship just has a the biggest squadron stat we've seen yet, but that all the droid fighters have a rule like

Droid: This squadron's cost doesn't count towards your squadron total and cannot activate in the squadron phase.

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Just now, Admael said:

My idea would be that the Droid control ship just has a the biggest squadron stat we've seen yet, but that all the droid fighters have a rule like

Droid: This squadron's cost doesn't count towards your squadron total and cannot activate in the squadron phase.

I would worry a bit about how that would work when the eventual CIS squadron with rogue comes along. Throw 8 Droid fighters in to bog down enemy squads and then still have 8 Rogues run down ships or pile on to the enemy squads?

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20 hours ago, Church14 said:

Would it? Z95s are the exact same save for this new Droid keyword. Droid makes them weaker. Droid controllers makes them more easily activated and less weak if nearby for an additional cost. Give some, take some. 

I think the damage spikes would be problematic against generics. Not being able to move without a squadron command would be a drawback, but if you can send 6 of them with the droid controller upgrade you envision, that could be super nasty. Anti-squad rerolls are a little bit better for red dice than blues (0.81 average damage with rerolls compared to 0.75). 

Attacking with 3 reds, there's a 1/3 chance of rolling a double hit. If you can fling 6 vulture droids in a single activation, you've got a good chance of getting a double hit in 2 of those activations. With swarm being an informed reroll, you'll be able to choose one of the (quite frequent) blanks.

Where the droid controller upgrade would go matters. It would probably need to be a weapons team, otherwise flight controllers + AFFM! with 3 red and a blue from 6 squads each would be a super nasty alpha strike. Even without flight controllers, it's still potentially pretty strong (if very swingy). Rebels kinda sorta have access to this kind of alpha strike, but realistically you're looking at 4, maybe 5 headhunters, and it doesn't really fit with their typical squadron doctrine. 

At the end of the day, I don't want vultures to be capable of the big damage spikes of red dice, even if they're unlikely. I don't think it's thematic for a dirt cheap squadron of vulture droids to get lucky and instagib a squadron of X-Wings or ARC-170s. I want them to be consistently worse than Z-95s and be more of a horde of mooks that needs to get ground down. 

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