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Star Wars Episode IX The Rise Of Skywalker

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6 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

You must have missed the reaction to Annie "Spinning Is A Good Trick/Now This Is Pod Racing" Skywalker in Episode One.

That was more IMO cause of his poor screen presence/acting..

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 1:25 PM, Hippie Moosen said:

Can we just not go there? Seriously, there's no need to throw politics into this stuff. Talk about the movies, comics, games, even Lucas film and Disney, but please no IRL politics. We in-fight as fans enough, so please try to keep something this incendiary far away from the forum.

Lobbing accusations of inciting violence in order to intimidate those with opposing views is incendiary.  Far more so than RL political references.  But point taken.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/5/2019 at 10:18 AM, Talonbane Cobra said:

I wonder If Rey was a boy if everyone would be so angry. He'd still be JJ's self insertion / wish fulfilment character. But with reproductive organs on the outside instead of on the inside.

I just feel like most people moaning about Rey would be fine with Rey if she was a man.

A Mary Sue is a thing that happens in story telling, and honestly I do think Rey is one. In TFA especially. Shows up the original protagonists and is seemingly much better at things than you'd expect her to be. ...

But a Mary Sue is a plot device, not an insult, it's not a reason something is bad, it's just a word people seem to have latched on to. 

Wesley Crusher in TNG is absolutely a Mary Sue, and lots of people hate him for it. But he hit the sweet spot for me. I was the right age, an outcast and felt a lot of affinity with Wes. He made me think I could do something good with my life and not listen to the people bullying me, kicking me to the kerb, and laughing at me. 

Rey will be that for a lot of girls that are watching Star Wars now. And I love that. I mean she comes across like a massive star wars fangirl for sure, but starwars fan girls are the best!

Anyway I likes TFA, it has issues, but these "issues" people have with plot or what they think is "realistic" are crazy. You can watch ESB with that hat on and absolutely rip it apart. I just don't.

TLJ kicked **** for me, I grew up with Luke Skywalker just like you all did and I think what happened with him is perfect. And none of you have any more or less of a right than I do to an option. 

Just so you know, all the millions of people that don't have an issue with TLJ exist. They just aren't shouting on the internet about it. You aren't in the majority because you see everyone around your crying that Luke wasn't your big **** hero. You are just in an echo chamber.

Bringing Palpatine back though.... classic JJ. I think RJ did great work in repairing the nonsense that JJ started on. And JJ is going to fanfic it back up again.

Oh on Rey's parents, I spoke to people that loved the idea that Rey didn't need a legacy to be a hero. Women especially. It's a better story to some than this constant revelations of family connections etc. I think people are getting sick of it now, after the new Harry Potter where a lot of it didn't go down too well I hope things can stop doing this and have an original thought.  But... It feels like maybe JJ is going to have Palpy be Anakins dad, so ....

I would argue Starkiller was just as big a Sue if not moreso than Rey (being Vader's super secret apprentice that Palpatine somehow didn't know about and retconned into the founder of the Alliance in the old EU) and he was a dude.

A Mary Sue is specifically someone who the universe bends over backward to let them win and be special. Wesley Crusher is a self insert for Roddenberry but considering how many times he's wrong in order to learn something you'd be hard pressed to convince me he's a Sue. 

The sequel trilogy has a lot of problems with tone and writing. None of these faults fall on the actors shoulders, and I think the cast is excellent but hampered by baffling High School fanfic tier ideas and a lack of substance. I have a lot of problems with the sequels, but they all are the fault of the people behind the cameras. It's a similar situation to the prequels- Portman and Christiansen are fine actors in other roles but George let them down by surrounding himself with yes men that wouldn't challenge his dull dialogue and cheesy character direction (and FWIW Hayden at least has some great scenes in ROTS amd Portman's "No confidence" speech is pretty great.). I feel something similar is going on at Lucasfilm with JJ.

 

Edited by ArcHammer

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On 5/5/2019 at 10:18 AM, Talonbane Cobra said:

I wonder If Rey was a boy if everyone would be so angry. He'd still be JJ's self insertion / wish fulfilment character. But with reproductive organs on the outside instead of on the inside.

I just feel like most people moaning about Rey would be fine with Rey if she was a man.

A Mary Sue is a thing that happens in story telling, and honestly I do think Rey is one. In TFA especially. Shows up the original protagonists and is seemingly much better at things than you'd expect her to be. ...

But a Mary Sue is a plot device, not an insult, it's not a reason something is bad, it's just a word people seem to have latched on to. 

Wesley Crusher in TNG is absolutely a Mary Sue, and lots of people hate him for it. But he hit the sweet spot for me. I was the right age, an outcast and felt a lot of affinity with Wes. He made me think I could do something good with my life and not listen to the people bullying me, kicking me to the kerb, and laughing at me. 

Rey will be that for a lot of girls that are watching Star Wars now. And I love that. I mean she comes across like a massive star wars fangirl for sure, but starwars fan girls are the best!

Anyway I likes TFA, it has issues, but these "issues" people have with plot or what they think is "realistic" are crazy. You can watch ESB with that hat on and absolutely rip it apart. I just don't.

TLJ kicked **** for me, I grew up with Luke Skywalker just like you all did and I think what happened with him is perfect. And none of you have any more or less of a right than I do to an option. 

Just so you know, all the millions of people that don't have an issue with TLJ exist. They just aren't shouting on the internet about it. You aren't in the majority because you see everyone around your crying that Luke wasn't your big **** hero. You are just in an echo chamber.

Bringing Palpatine back though.... classic JJ. I think RJ did great work in repairing the nonsense that JJ started on. And JJ is going to fanfic it back up again.

Oh on Rey's parents, I spoke to people that loved the idea that Rey didn't need a legacy to be a hero. Women especially. It's a better story to some than this constant revelations of family connections etc. I think people are getting sick of it now, after the new Harry Potter where a lot of it didn't go down too well I hope things can stop doing this and have an original thought.  But... It feels like maybe JJ is going to have Palpy be Anakins dad, so ....

My personnal opinion regarding the backlash on Rey and the Sequel.

I think that most people that didn't like the new movies didn't like them simply because they don't think they are good movies. And that's okay, we all have different opinions. But I don't think we hear a lot from them, just like I don't think we hear a lot from the people that love them. And while I do believe that for some people, Rey being a girl played a part in why they didn't like the new movies, I don't think that there is actually a lot of them, they are just more vocal than others, and I believe they are pretty much the same persons that had a problem with the new Ghostbuster movie all-girl cast and that now have a problem with the new Captain Marvel movie. There is clearly an anti-feminism agenda at play against hollywood pushing for more diversity. But like I said, I don't think they are a major part of those that didn't like the new movies, they are simply a very small minority that doesn't even deserve our attention.

My personnal opinion is that most of the backlash come at its core from people that never really accepted that Disney erased the old EU. They were very attached to it, spent a lot of time reading those books and just can't accept that all this ''knowledge'' is now worth nothing, as if they lost their time. So, that makes them highly critical of the new movies. They don't want the new EU to succeed, in the hope that Disney will say mea culpa and revive the old EU. That's why there is a more often than not a double-standard in the Sequel Trilogy critisisms. Most of those critisims can actually be applied to the Original Trilogy too. But since we grew up with the OT, there is a willingness to accept those critisms and make mental gymnastic to explain it. But in the case of the Sequel Trilogy, no, everything must be absolutly perfect or it's the worst thing to happened in the cinema history.

That's also why I think the The Last Jedi had soooo much more backlash than Force Awakens. While the Force Awakens suffered from the critisim of Rey being a Mary Sue and beng just a retell of a New Hope, that was pretty much it. It didn't really shook things up, nothing was really different from the Original Trilogy. Han Solo was still Han Solo, same for Leia. Only big difference was that they were not together. As for Luke, nothing was really said about him, but people could still expect him to be the greatest Jedi of the Galaxy. It was still conservative of the Original Trilogy. But then came the Last Jedi, and this movie really shook things up, going in a very very different way than the old EU. Luke is the exact opposite of who he was in the old EU and I think that a lot of people just can't accept it. And since they were already apprehensive of the new trilogy because Disney erased the old EU, they now had to destroy this movie, make sure that nobody love it, so that Disney could go back and reinstore the old EU. So, to destroy this movie, they started to watch it with the actual idea to spot all the possible flaws in it, and turn it into something objective and not just subjective like an opinion should be. Thing is, if they were to watch the Original Trilogy with the same mindset, the Empire Strike Back would also be one of the the worst movie in the history of cinema. Or just imagine if Episode 6 were to be release today and watched with this mindset, how it would have been destroyed because Boba Fett died like a punk or because of how the Empire lost to Ewoks.

I will always wonder... if Luke Skywalker would have been represented as the super-hero badass jedi that he was in the old EU in The Last Jedi, would it still have received so many backlash? If the old EU would never have been erased by Disney, would the new movies would have been watched with as much highly critical mindset? I personnaly don't think so. I believe that there is some people that want those movies to fail and will do anything for it to happen.

For me, The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars movie (second only to Episode 5 because of Nostalgia) because it dared to bring the franchise in a new direction and didn't just tried to feed on Fan Service to please the fans. It told the story that it had to tell and I can't wait to have the conclusion with Episode 9.

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Honestly, i think The Last Jedi was a good movie. On the other hand i watched and re watched The Force Awakens and for the life of me i can not like it no matter how much i try to. I can not put a finger on a single issue but as a whole it just was not that good. It did have some good parts but as a whole it just didnt go together very well. For one, how did Maz Kanata end up with Luke's light saber?  This other part, i do realize they are trying to show off Poe's pilot skills but to kill a storm trooper next to a good guy and said good guy is just fine with out some friendly fire in a t-70?  

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9 hours ago, BenderIsGreat said:

In the end, people like what they like, dislike what they dislike, they’re entitled to disagree, best done amicably, and that’s that. 

But Dune will always be superior for showing Sting in a diaper, and a floating Charles Durning.

The Spice must flow.

Also BenderIsGreat.... Bene Gesserit... coincidence, I think not!

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10 hours ago, PartridgeKing said:

The Spice must flow.

Also BenderIsGreat.... Bene Gesserit... coincidence, I think not!

Heed now the Undeniable Truth of The Force Awakens: Rey the Flatchested is actually a boy named Morty, who was traded for drinking money and a cheap spaceship by his ******* grandfather, Star Wars Rick.

THINK ABOUT IT.

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I wonder if the new one will spend another 2 hours explaining to me in the most hack way possible that fighting against a fascist empire is wrong, and the only real answer to a violent imperial menace that won't hesitate to annihilate you is to stoically accept your death at their hands while letting your friends know you love them (your friends will also be murdered).

 

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The first movie was a HD remix of ANH (and was super boring), and TLJ was just dumb to me. I’ll still watch this one to see if it gets enjoyable but I don’t really have my hopes too high. Everyday I wish that Finn was the main character with force powers like I thought he was going to be before TFA came out because he just has more personality then Rey  and plus he was kind of a bad*ss in TFA when he went against Kylo Ren. That was cool. Though I think Rey’s problem mostly comes from poor writing for Rey’s character rather then personal acting flaws. Hopefully, if this movie is going to be bad, it’ll be campy like the prequels so I can get a laugh rather then painfully mediocre.

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On 5/8/2019 at 1:24 PM, Red Castle said:

My personnal opinion regarding the backlash on Rey and the Sequel.

I think that most people that didn't like the new movies didn't like them simply because they don't think they are good movies. And that's okay, we all have different opinions. But I don't think we hear a lot from them, just like I don't think we hear a lot from the people that love them. And while I do believe that for some people, Rey being a girl played a part in why they didn't like the new movies, I don't think that there is actually a lot of them, they are just more vocal than others, and I believe they are pretty much the same persons that had a problem with the new Ghostbuster movie all-girl cast and that now have a problem with the new Captain Marvel movie. There is clearly an anti-feminism agenda at play against hollywood pushing for more diversity. But like I said, I don't think they are a major part of those that didn't like the new movies, they are simply a very small minority that doesn't even deserve our attention.

My personnal opinion is that most of the backlash come at its core from people that never really accepted that Disney erased the old EU. They were very attached to it, spent a lot of time reading those books and just can't accept that all this ''knowledge'' is now worth nothing, as if they lost their time. So, that makes them highly critical of the new movies. They don't want the new EU to succeed, in the hope that Disney will say mea culpa and revive the old EU. That's why there is a more often than not a double-standard in the Sequel Trilogy critisisms. Most of those critisims can actually be applied to the Original Trilogy too. But since we grew up with the OT, there is a willingness to accept those critisms and make mental gymnastic to explain it. But in the case of the Sequel Trilogy, no, everything must be absolutly perfect or it's the worst thing to happened in the cinema history.

That's also why I think the The Last Jedi had soooo much more backlash than Force Awakens. While the Force Awakens suffered from the critisim of Rey being a Mary Sue and beng just a retell of a New Hope, that was pretty much it. It didn't really shook things up, nothing was really different from the Original Trilogy. Han Solo was still Han Solo, same for Leia. Only big difference was that they were not together. As for Luke, nothing was really said about him, but people could still expect him to be the greatest Jedi of the Galaxy. It was still conservative of the Original Trilogy. But then came the Last Jedi, and this movie really shook things up, going in a very very different way than the old EU. Luke is the exact opposite of who he was in the old EU and I think that a lot of people just can't accept it. And since they were already apprehensive of the new trilogy because Disney erased the old EU, they now had to destroy this movie, make sure that nobody love it, so that Disney could go back and reinstore the old EU. So, to destroy this movie, they started to watch it with the actual idea to spot all the possible flaws in it, and turn it into something objective and not just subjective like an opinion should be. Thing is, if they were to watch the Original Trilogy with the same mindset, the Empire Strike Back would also be one of the the worst movie in the history of cinema. Or just imagine if Episode 6 were to be release today and watched with this mindset, how it would have been destroyed because Boba Fett died like a punk or because of how the Empire lost to Ewoks.

I will always wonder... if Luke Skywalker would have been represented as the super-hero badass jedi that he was in the old EU in The Last Jedi, would it still have received so many backlash? If the old EU would never have been erased by Disney, would the new movies would have been watched with as much highly critical mindset? I personnaly don't think so. I believe that there is some people that want those movies to fail and will do anything for it to happen.

For me, The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars movie (second only to Episode 5 because of Nostalgia) because it dared to bring the franchise in a new direction and didn't just tried to feed on Fan Service to please the fans. It told the story that it had to tell and I can't wait to have the conclusion with Episode 9.

This. ^

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4 hours ago, EnsignTuna said:

The first movie was a HD remix of ANH (and was super boring), and TLJ was just dumb to me. I’ll still watch this one to see if it gets enjoyable but I don’t really have my hopes too high. Everyday I wish that Finn was the main character with force powers like I thought he was going to be before TFA came out because he just has more personality then Rey  and plus he was kind of a bad*ss in TFA when he went against Kylo Ren. That was cool. Though I think Rey’s problem mostly comes from poor writing for Rey’s character rather then personal acting flaws. Hopefully, if this movie is going to be bad, it’ll be campy like the prequels so I can get a laugh rather then painfully mediocre.

I wish it was fin who was the jedi, too, rather than Rey.  I liked him a lot better in the first film than the 2nd..

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