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Possible future changes to the game?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bitterman said:

Sorry - who are those people, if they're not your group?¬†ūüėē

I'm honestly confused by what you're talking about here. You're saying "our group can't cooperate", so I suggest "maybe the problem is your group rather than IA as a cooperative game", and you reply with "our group is just fine, it's this imaginary other group of people who may not even exist that I'm concerned about".

Who, exactly, do you think has "left the game with the idea that it's a bad game" because they were unable to cooperate? And why do you think rules that enable and empower alpha gamers to take charge is a solution to that problem?

There was a time, I was supervising people playing one random mission as introduction to the game. The purpose was to create campaign groups and have a stable community of players in town. I wasn't imperial or rebel, so other than rules most of the effort was to prevent the alpha gamers to destroy game experience to everyone. Well, when an alpha gamer was at the table I knew already someone else in the party would have refused to join a campaign group. In most of the cases motivation was "I believe the game isn't enough fun" or similar reason.

I believe a game that opens to such situations can be improved to consider the issue and prevent/attenuate it.

Now going back to the rule. Having the chance of asking advice to 1-2 people is great, having 1-2 people discussing every possible choice that isn't inline with their opinion is bad. A rule that says "rebels can cooperate, if the owner of the current activation asks for it" makes a huge difference. Do you want to be a lone wolf? You can. Do you want help? You ask. Are you an alpha-guy? You shut up until someone asks you and if you talk the imperial will get a bonus or something.

Not saying this is the way to go. Just saying that not taking into account alpha gaming into mechanics design is as bad as ignoring color-blind people into design of game components. In both cases you lost part of the audience.

Edited by Trevize84

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On 4/15/2019 at 5:58 PM, Tvboy said:

If you are a campaign only player who is happy with the game as is, then whether or not the game gets a new edition has literally no effect on you does it? A new edition doesn’t make the game you own unplayable, and the app isn’t an online game that requires continuous support to play the way an online multiplayer game does.

FFG has said at Star Wars celebration that they have more digital coop content coming out, so if that’s all you’re interested in then you will be good.

Honestly I’m a bit jealous because you are actually really the only type of IA player that FFG seems to care about or even think about anymore.

I understand the jealousy.  It isn't fair, but I was pretty sure when Legion became their big PvP darling that IA skirmish was going to get thrown from the train.  I'm sad to see I was right. 

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On 4/16/2019 at 2:10 AM, Trevize84 said:

If we break down this game it's bad in many ways.

Campaign:

- Plot isn't strong

- Allies (that in the end are characters from the saga and should help creating strong plots) are never a good choice and anyway don't add anything to the plot itself

- Lack of strong RPG elements/decisions (app partially introduced something)

- Snowballing

- Alpha gaming

- Overthinking and time wasted by rebels arguing on what you can do, what I can do, what he can do, what should we do, I don't know what to do...

- Incredible mess of rules, wording and overcomplicated caveats that we really don't need

Skirmish:

- Power-creeping across expansions

- Lack of a self-adjustment mechanism (only FAQs can save the game)

- Incredible mess of rules, wording and overcomplicated caveats that we really don't need

That's what I would focus on if I had to design 2nd edition

Can you explain "Plot isn't strong" otherwise I mostly agree.  The plot is, there is a galactic war between the Rebellion and a Galactic Empire.  I do agree that Allies seem added just for flavor, especially cannon characters.  I think the use of non-unique troops as additions to the party is a good one.  I do agree the RPG elements are a bit weak.  

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53 minutes ago, Rikalonius said:

Can you explain "Plot isn't strong" otherwise I mostly agree.  The plot is, there is a galactic war between the Rebellion and a Galactic Empire.  I do agree that Allies seem added just for flavor, especially cannon characters.  I think the use of non-unique troops as additions to the party is a good one.  I do agree the RPG elements are a bit weak.  

I have yet to see a character with a cannon, but that would be cool...

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I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but after talking to the FFG staff and some people at the Legion booth,  IA is dead.  There isn't any new expansions planned, no Endor mat,  they are dedicating all resources to X-wing, destiny, Legion, Armada and SWRPG all in that order, plus new games when resources are available.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Rogo727 said:

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but after talking to the FFG staff and some people at the Legion booth,  IA is dead.  There isn't any new expansions planned, no Endor mat,  they are dedicating all resources to X-wing, destiny, Legion, Armada and SWRPG all in that order, plus new games when resources are available.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/3/18/prepare-your-strike-team/

 

Edit:  Not to mention that they confirmed that they're still working on new IA content (just not physcial content) just last week.

 

I mean of course it depends on your definition of "dead".  Without physical product skirmish is pretty much "dead" outside of the fan-run IACP, but that doesn't mean that they're going to stop app development nor does it mean that the tonnes of existing campaign stuff is suddenly unplayable.
 

Edited by ManateeX

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40 minutes ago, dysartes said:

I have yet to see a character with a cannon, but that would be cool...

I seriously can't believe I added the extra 'n'.  I'm usually the one mocking people for saying cannon instead of canon. That's what I get I suppose.

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9 minutes ago, ManateeX said:

Edit:  Not to mention that they confirmed that they're still working on new IA content (just not physcial content) just last week.

If you want to be exact, FFG mentioned the new mode that is coming for the app. It doesn't say they are right now working on the app, on the contrary. If FFG says something is coming, it's almost definitely already finished.

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Descent players are getting Lost Legends, which rounds off some uneven class numbers in Descent, more or less completing the game.

I was kinda wondering if IA would get a comparable ‚Äúparting gift‚ÄĚ physical¬†expansion (3 new heroes, Yoda?) but it sounds like that‚Äôs not happening.

Another poster in a different thread mentioned how the new mode sounds like Descent’s Trials Of Frostgate DLC. I agree- that was my first thought when reading the thread.

It’s not exciting- essentially an endless gauntlet survival mode.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

Can you explain "Plot isn't strong" otherwise I mostly agree.  The plot is, there is a galactic war between the Rebellion and a Galactic Empire.  I do agree that Allies seem added just for flavor, especially cannon characters.  I think the use of non-unique troops as additions to the party is a good one.  I do agree the RPG elements are a bit weak.  

If you take any campaign (I won't tell spoilers) the plot isn't exciting. Finale is always the ending of a story that lives in the SW universe but is far from the big game. You're an anonymous squad of rebels doing great things against the bad guy.

Think about Rogue One, you have new characters. They're totally unknown but what they've done is crucial for the saga.

I'm not saying each campaign should end up into a finale that can have impact on the saga. I'm saying the campaign should take elements from the saga that helps you to link what you're doing with what is happening in the movies. Campaign events should be affected by events in the movie, and pretend it had effects on the saga.

In example in Jabba's Realm some missions could have been somehow related to the mission for saving Han prisoner into the carbonite. It should still be compliant with the saga, but you know that Leia, Luke, Lando and the droid couldn't make it without you. This way allies would show up into mission because of mission rules to create that link with the trilogy.

Edited by Trevize84

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My college writing professor used to write ‚ÄúYES‚ÄĚ on essays as a way to say ‚Äúthis is obvious and you should have left it out.‚ÄĚ ¬†The example he used to give was ‚Äúwe buried my grandfather because he was dead.‚ÄĚ

56 minutes ago, Rogo727 said:

Folks they may update the app, but there will be no new expansions, or characters released.  Ever.

YES

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3 hours ago, Trevize84 said:

If you take any campaign (I won't tell spoilers) the plot isn't exciting. Finale is always the ending of a story that lives in the SW universe but is far from the big game. You're an anonymous squad of rebels doing great things against the bad guy.

Think about Rogue One, you have new characters. They're totally unknown but what they've done is crucial for the saga.

I'm not saying each campaign should end up into a finale that can have impact on the saga. I'm saying the campaign should take elements from the saga that helps you to link what you're doing with what is happening in the movies. Campaign events should be affected by events in the movie, and pretend it had effects on the saga.

In example in Jabba's Realm some missions could have been somehow related to the mission for saving Han prisoner into the carbonite. It should still be compliant with the saga, but you know that Leia, Luke, Lando and the droid couldn't make it without you. This way allies would show up into mission because of mission rules to create that link with the trilogy.

See I disagree.  Yes, the films have character's that are deeply immersed in some of the final outcomes, but, of course they do, they are protagonists in a film.  This was a galactic civil war.  Battles between the Rebellion and the Galactic Empire.  Think of it like WWII.  Saving Private Ryan is a good film, but ostensibly it is a film about a squad of Rangers who search out a single private.  It has very little to do with the big picture, like a movie, say, like Patton.   Or a film like Bat 21, which is about a Navy SEAL and a Vietnamese sailor who infiltrate behind enemy lines to rescue a downed airman.  I'm happy that the campaigns don't directly tie into the film narrative. Everyone says Star Wars is a big galaxy, but we'd never know it, as everything has to revolve around the Skywalkers.  

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As a kid i loved the classic movies and used to paper and pen rpg with my best friends but today I am just fed up with the Skywalkers. The universe/setting is great for other stories, personally I have had the best star wars experiences with games like knights of the old republic. I loved the Rogue One movie, Solo was a great watch in 3D with the psvr and the short x-wing extra VR thing in Battlefront i just amazing. Now I will enjoy the universe thanks to IA, IA even got me to watch Rebels with my daughter. I think my kids needs all the Skywalkers figures in IA thou ;)

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

See I disagree.  Yes, the films have character's that are deeply immersed in some of the final outcomes, but, of course they do, they are protagonists in a film.  This was a galactic civil war.  Battles between the Rebellion and the Galactic Empire.  Think of it like WWII.  Saving Private Ryan is a good film, but ostensibly it is a film about a squad of Rangers who search out a single private.  It has very little to do with the big picture, like a movie, say, like Patton.   Or a film like Bat 21, which is about a Navy SEAL and a Vietnamese sailor who infiltrate behind enemy lines to rescue a downed airman.  I'm happy that the campaigns don't directly tie into the film narrative. Everyone says Star Wars is a big galaxy, but we'd never know it, as everything has to revolve around the Skywalkers.  

A movie gives you enough content to know your hero background so that you can emphatically joy and suffer with him/her. You start an IA campaign, heroes are such just because RRG calls them that way. They have no background, unless you link them to the saga. They also don't create anything special with other team-mates or allies (excluding the fact you all win or lose together a mission).

I imagine a campaign where you know where your heroes are coming from and where each of them would like to go. During mission you might find yourself alone in one part of a map with an ally or another team-mate and try to achieve something together, if you do those two guys can get something like a card or a bonus to abilities when they are adjacent or close. I imagine you can find yourself in situations where you can save or let an ally die and change the story. Imagine Diala letting Luke die to save Leia and because of that finding herself instead of Luke in front of Darth Vader for the finale.

This is what I'd really expect from a great and well designed campaing. This is a strong plot, something built on top of a background that pretend you have full freedom of choice each one with proper consequences.

That's what I mean. To do that you need a background different then "there're civilians taken as hostages and we are noble heroes that want to save them", this is too weak. That's why we need to link characters to the saga.

Edited by Trevize84

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13 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

 I'm happy that the campaigns don't directly tie into the film narrative. Everyone says Star Wars is a big galaxy, but we'd never know it, as everything has to revolve around the Skywalkers.  

Return to Hoth campaign starts right during the first part of the Empire Strikes Back movie and to me I thought it was very well thought!  As we played the mission we could imagine that Luke was flying his snowspeeder at the same time to bring down the AT-ATs while Han and Leia were trying to escape Echo base!  That was incredible immersion for us!  And now each time I watch the Battle of Hoth, I think of the hero crews that are fighting somewhere off screen!!  

Personaly I would have loved to have more of these missions that ties in with the movies .. anotehr example is the Threat mission about the heroes assisting Chewie in tracking smoe bounty hunters that might have information about frozen Han.  This is great as when you watch Return of the Jedi, if you ever played that mission, you can imagine that the heroes contributed somehow to "help free" Solo!

 

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