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Varren

First attempt at Armada, any critique welcome

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Posted (edited)

My only experience so far is 1 game of the base set as Imperial.  I lost due to one of the two Rebel ships getting behind my VSD.

I believe my friend will be running a decent amount of squadrons which had an effect on my list.  My biggest concern is I can't find the points to grab the Relentless title for the ISD or run the Wing Commander on the ISD so I'm stuck trying to predict my squads 3 turns in advance....meaning I'm going to probably waste Squad command dials when they are not needed.

My only idea right now is to drop a Disposable Cap to grab the Relentless title...but that feels bad.  

Finally please ignore the objectives, we are playing until all ships (squads don't count) are dead.  Which may mean that my DiCaps are not even that useful.  

Link for the pretty version: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=208279&key=a5b1ad1dfab6ad8ef54d89878e13493c

Text for the rest:

Consummate V's 

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points) 
-  Strategic Adviser  ( 4  points) 
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points) 
= 158 total ship cost

 

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 97 total ship cost

 

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 97 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 
= 48 total squadron cost

Edited by Varren
Rogue->Rebel

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Pretty solid stuff for a first list. All of these ships may be expensive point-wise, but there's good reason for that (the sheer number of dice they throw at most ranges) which makes them very easy to just pick up and play with. The Vics alone wouldn't be so much of a worry to an opposing player, but the ISD II is ALWAYS a situation of "oh crap". You also have managed to give the VSDs some good reroll power (not to mention, given their slow natural speed, Quad Bats fits them to a T).

Getting into the more critique-y bit, I'd heavily caution the use of expanded hangar bay when you don't have an overflow of fighters. The second that one of those TIEs goes down (and they very likely will) it's essentially dead points. You can get by fantastically with just the ships' native Squadron values and even just the ISD's if you make good use of the token+dial combo. D-Caps is FANTASTIC on Vic IIs. If you were to drop anything in this list, they'd be the last thing I'd recommend. However, at present neither of them get a ton of punch since you're not using Gunnery Teams on either Vic. The numbers speak for themselves, you either get a max damage-output of 9 from your front hull (2 max per red, 1 per blue) OR a max damage of 18 from the same hull; all in just that turn, all at long range! I'd even argue if you place the Vics in the center and use Moff JJ, your opponents could be unable to avoid that big first shot 90% of the time at least (which with the wrong ship could spell an 1-shot-kill). Final Critique would be kind of a minor one, but while your squadrons are a good solid handful on their own, I'd err more on the side of having an even number of them. Remember, if you have an odd number of squadrons during deployment, the last one you place HAS to go after you place everything else in your list. Even numbers just give you that extra bit of freedom in your early game planning, so the closer you can stick to it, the better off you'll be.

Anyway, I hope all that helps. Again, very solid list. Happy flying! ^^

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8 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Pretty solid stuff for a first list. All of these ships may be expensive point-wise, but there's good reason for that (the sheer number of dice they throw at most ranges) which makes them very easy to just pick up and play with. The Vics alone wouldn't be so much of a worry to an opposing player, but the ISD II is ALWAYS a situation of "oh crap". You also have managed to give the VSDs some good reroll power (not to mention, given their slow natural speed, Quad Bats fits them to a T).

Getting into the more critique-y bit, I'd heavily caution the use of expanded hangar bay when you don't have an overflow of fighters. The second that one of those TIEs goes down (and they very likely will) it's essentially dead points. You can get by fantastically with just the ships' native Squadron values and even just the ISD's if you make good use of the token+dial combo. D-Caps is FANTASTIC on Vic IIs. If you were to drop anything in this list, they'd be the last thing I'd recommend. However, at present neither of them get a ton of punch since you're not using Gunnery Teams on either Vic. The numbers speak for themselves, you either get a max damage-output of 9 from your front hull (2 max per red, 1 per blue) OR a max damage of 18 from the same hull; all in just that turn, all at long range! I'd even argue if you place the Vics in the center and use Moff JJ, your opponents could be unable to avoid that big first shot 90% of the time at least (which with the wrong ship could spell an 1-shot-kill). Final Critique would be kind of a minor one, but while your squadrons are a good solid handful on their own, I'd err more on the side of having an even number of them. Remember, if you have an odd number of squadrons during deployment, the last one you place HAS to go after you place everything else in your list. Even numbers just give you that extra bit of freedom in your early game planning, so the closer you can stick to it, the better off you'll be.

Anyway, I hope all that helps. Again, very solid list. Happy flying! ^^

Hey Cruzer,

Thank you so much, that was a great analysis.  I kept thinking about the hanger being too much but I just needed a push of logic to convince me, which you delivered.  Also I didn't know about the odd squad rule, I'll need to re-read the setup protocol.

Two follow up questions:

1. Gunnery Team: This can't shoot the same ship twice, how often do you find you can hit two targets with the front of a Vic?  I figured I'd be lucky to get one target in range considering how enemies really want to avoid that arc.
2. I was thinking of deploying like this:
v V v

With the squads left and right of the ISD.  You mentioned running the Vic's next to each other, but I was going to curve them into each other with my setup above so that they covered the ISD and each other's butts.  What are your thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

To further clarify, I added Relentless (3) to my ISD, removed the Hanger and a Tie.  I have 10 pts left to spend, but Gunnery Teams is 7.  Trying to keep my Vic's equal so he can't just avoid the more dangerous one, but maybe that's not necessary.

Edited by Varren

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13 minutes ago, Varren said:

To further clarify, I added Relentless (3) to my ISD, removed the Hanger and a Tie.  I have 10 pts left to spend, but Gunnery Teams is 7.  Trying to keep my Vic's equal so he can't just avoid the more dangerous one, but maybe that's not necessary.

Maybe drop another Tie and Relentless for GTs, drop Flight Controllers on the ISD for GT. Although Relentless is a good card for flexibility of commands, I don't really fancy it too much.

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1 hour ago, DunaMoose said:

Maybe drop another Tie and Relentless for GTs, drop Flight Controllers on the ISD for GT. Although Relentless is a good card for flexibility of commands, I don't really fancy it too much.

I can do this, but then I worry what happens when I get attacked by squads, are three tie fighters going to be able to hold them all off?

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2 hours ago, Varren said:

I can do this, but then I worry what happens when I get attacked by squads, are three tie fighters going to be able to hold them all off?

No. But 4 are neither 😊.

If you want some squad protection, and don't want to spend too many points, have a look at Cienna. She is really good in stopping a few attacks, and can deal at least some damage back.
She cost more than two TIE Fighters, but can do more and last longer.
Next you should have a look at could be Bossk. He costs around 3 TIE Fighter. But he is way more dangerous for enemy squadrons and can last longer.
Valen is also really nice, because he will last longer when he is next to another friendly squadron.
For 53 points you could use Cienna, Valen and Bossk. They will at least give some solid squadron protection, and can be usefull against ships. Cienna is not even attackable by most ships, and these that can attack, can be scattered. Bossk will not be attacked by ships, because of his effect. As bonus you don't need the hangar bays anymore. And could scratch also the Flight Controllers.

Just see it this way. What are these TIE Fighters doing when the opponent has no squadrons, or if you won the squadron fight? The 3 hull, without any defense tokens, will not last long against the anti squadron dice from the ships. Yes, they are a bonus, but not a really strong one.

 

Another tip would be another admiral. Jerjerod is nice to get your ships around.
But other than this, he gives you nothing. Motti would be an alternative choice. He will give your Star Destroyers some serious hull upgrade.
Or Thrawn. Even when he costs 32, he gives you more flexibility. He can give you the same effect as Jerjerod (without the damage). But on top of this you can also choose other commands, if you see that you don't need the navigation. And Thrawn is not counterable with the Slicer Tools.
And being able to have a repair command at hand when you need it, is also really good.

 

Last the missions:
Blockade run is not really good for these 3 ships. You have only 3, and don't really want (or have time) to run over to the opponents side. You want your opponent come to you, you want him in your front and not in your rear.
Station Assault, Most Wanted or Advanced Gunnery are way better for this ships. Just keep in mind that Advanced Gunnery and Gunnery Team (GT) do not work together. If you have a GT on the ISD, you will have to choose one of the VSD for the Advanced Gunnery. This is still really nice. Being able to shoot twice on long range with the 6 (or 7) dice can be really great.

Instead of Capture the VIP i would suggest Contested Outpost. Your ships all have a command value of  3. This means it will be a pain for your opponent to get the station from you. And you can just sit there and wait for him. With Contested Outpost you are able to get 120 bonus points. That is a value your opponent cannot ignore. This way you can even loose a VSD and are still ahead.

Solar Corona. Well. What should i say 😁. It will be the mission you will play most of the time when being player two. Just because it is so bad (for you). But on the other hand, there are not so much alternative missions. Dangerous Territory would by my best call for it. Obstacles are no danger anymore, you can fly way more freely. And if you can give him the asteroids, you are dealing even faceup damage cards.
Drawback on this mission might be, that the obstacles are all on the edges of the map. And are not helping you in the middle of battlefield.
As second pick i would say Salvage Run. There is a danger that your opponent has strategic and can steal the tokens. But it force him at least to come to a place that you dictate.

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Posted (edited)

Welcome to Armada @Varren !

I am looking at your list from a competitive stand point and notice a few things.

1. Squadron Choice

On 4/10/2019 at 8:16 PM, Varren said:

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 
= 48 total squadron cost

This 5 man squad seems to be good, but will fall quickly to any dedicated ball. I recommend a switch to Ciena Ree and Mauler Mithel. These two squads together give you 1 deployment (1 less than your squadrons) but give you ample hull to chew through (+ tokens!!) These two can be reliable antisquadron and will help keep your costs low (only 32 points). 

2. Understanding Game Rounds

On 4/10/2019 at 8:16 PM, Varren said:

My biggest concern is I can't find the points to grab the Relentless title for the ISD or run the Wing Commander on the ISD so I'm stuck trying to predict my squads 3 turns in advance.

Armada is broken into 4 "phases".

Phase 0, which is before the game starts, with list building, astroids, deployment and objectives. In this phase, you need to define your strategy going into the game. What ranges benefit you most? What objectives do you want to run? How do you want to deploy obstacles? and most importantly, Where will I deploy? These questions are hard to answer, but as you get more skilled, you can answer them easier. I recommend you look into some of the good blogs and websites in the Armada community, such as http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/. you can look for specific things, like (http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/02/fleet-building-201-big-heavy.html) that correspond to your build. Check out their stuff on building fleets. It is super helpful!

Phase 1, round 1(and sometimes round 2) is your Phase 1. This is the stage when you want to get tokens on your ships, maneuver into the battle, and Prepare for combat. Normally, Squadron commands SHOULD NOT be done in Phase 1, unless you are saving a token. This is because you can move your squadrons in the squadron phase without worry. This phase is also important, because you will be navigating (hopefully with a command or jerjer or Thrawn dial) and when you start heading one way, it is hard to change direction. Navigation is the most important phase of the game, and should be treated so. Many newer players make their mistakes in this phase. 

Phase 2, this phase is normally round 2-4. This is the "attack" phase, and this is where you will do squadron commands and Con fire commands. 

Phase 3, This is after the initial combat, and here you are normally Navigating away from the combat or engineering. 

I recommend a switch to thrawn because you can set your dials and pull them whenever you need them. You can treat him like JJ by just even putting nav commands, but he is more useful if you put confires and squadrons. 

Here is a list that would be better for 400 points. Trying to run full 2 vics and an ISD is impossible with ISD II and Vic IIs. I recommend a switch to a Kuat and two Vic Is. 

This list allows you to fully upgrade all of your ships and you get a lot more competitive of a build. You can still run JJ, if you want, which gives you points to play around with. 

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Grand Admiral Thrawn (32) JerJerodd (23)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boarding Troopers (3)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Avenger (5)
= 173 Points

Victory I (73)
• Captain Brunson (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
• External Racks (3)
• Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
= 98 Points

Victory I (73)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• External Racks (3)
• Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
= 94 Points

Squadrons:
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Ciena Ree (17)
= 32 Points

Total Points: 394 (or 385 with JJ)

Edited by Cleto0

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@Tokra

@Cleto0
Thanks for the additional advice.  As a side note I LOVE Cannot Get Your Ship Out and have read probably 75% of the articles there, some twice.

I really wanted to run those Tie fighters if I could, I just love the flavor of a squad leader and a bunch of ties flying around my ISD to keep it free from rebel scum.  I want to note that this is a kitchen table game with a friend of mine who has not much more exp than me, so anything that expects some sort of meta will probably be overkill.

I read elsewhere that if you know how to fly then you don't need the Relentless title, so I think I'll just learn to fly the hard way by making mistakes.  I'll report back here how the game goes.  For anyone following along, the final list will be the original minus the hanger bay and 1 tie fighter.  That's 1 pt short of being able to add gunnery teams on both Vics.  I'm still open to how to get that last point, but I'm only looking for minor changes now.

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2 hours ago, Varren said:

Oooo that's a nice list.  But how useful is the one flotilla?

It is usefull, because this is the 5th activation. And because it can move the token to the ship that needs them via Comms Net.

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Battle Report: He used an MC80 Assault Carrier and 2 MC30 Assault Frigates along with 4 A Wings and 4 B Wings.

My opening salvo combined with Disposable Caps and Gunnery Teams (Thanks @Cruzer!) was able to drop one of the smaller ships, allowing me to focus the others.  I was able to split the A Wings by jumping on them with a ship then focusing them down.  I had to switch out Howlrunner for Mithel because I needed an extra point for the two Gunnery Teams.

After that he conceded.  His B wing fleet and 1 small ship was still 100% intact with his large ship not going to last much longer.  I'm pretty sure he could have destroyed at least one Vic before I got his last ship if he had continued.  A very fun experience for my first real game.

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@DunaMoose really? A man of your talents?

You are an active forum user and missed a big ship ANNOUNCEMENT/NEW WAVE DROP 

 thanks for popping in and adding something to this page. Use your noggin. MC30... hum what could that be? 

sorry for saying something, but you don't have to post on EVERY post, especially if you add a fat NOTHING to the post. 

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3 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

@DunaMoose really? A man of your talents?

You are an active forum user and missed a big ship ANNOUNCEMENT/NEW WAVE DROP 

 thanks for popping in and adding something to this page. Use your noggin. MC30... hum what could that be? 

sorry for saying something, but you don't have to post on EVERY post, especially if you add a fat NOTHING to the post. 

2z81cg.jpg

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6 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

@DunaMoose really? A man of your talents?

You are an active forum user and missed a big ship ANNOUNCEMENT/NEW WAVE DROP 

 thanks for popping in and adding something to this page. Use your noggin. MC30... hum what could that be? 

sorry for saying something, but you don't have to post on EVERY post, especially if you add a fat NOTHING to the post. 

it was a joke.

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