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Boom Owl

X-Wing Tactics Central

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Posted (edited)

X-Wing Tactics Central 

10-181st-Werneck-EGTW-2400x1200-699427914014.jpg

Pick One Topic and Explain It or Ramble About It  :)

  • List Selection & Meta Analysis
  • Rock Selection
  • Rock Placement 
  • Ship Deployment
  • Initiative Choice
  • Identifying the Killbox & Adjusting it On the Fly
  • Designing Openers with Preset Options 
  • Turn 1 - Speed & Direction
  • Turn 2 - Reaction & Escape Routes 
  • Turn 3 - Angle/Range of Attack & Target Selection
  • Not Committing 
  • Action Choices
    • Target Lock instead of Focus
    • Spend or Save Lock
    • Spend or Save Focus
    • Reposition or Token Up
    • How to Not Reposition
    • Random Actions (Jam/Coordinate) 
    • When to Re-Enforce 
    • When to Jam 
  • Initial Engagement Options
    • Full Flank
    • Full Joust
    • Partial Flank
    • Partial Joust
    • Flying Kites 
    • Not Playing the Game 
  • Archetype Weakness ( Things lists don't want to have happen ) 
  • Archetype Strengths ( Things lists want to do )
  • Archetype Matchups:
    • Aces vs Swarm
    • Ace vs Ace ( You move last )
    • Ace vs Ace ( You move first ) 
    • Ace vs Mid/Low Init Beef
    • Ace vs High Init Beef
    • Beef vs Beef
    • Swarm vs Swarm 
    • Turrets vs Beef 
    • Fat Turret vs Fat Turret
  • How to Recycle & Disengage
  • How to Block Effectively / When to Not Block At All
  • How to fight high init using low init without depending on HP/Defense Stacks
  • When Patience is Correct
  • When Aggression is Correct 
  • How to modify your dice ( Its not always "spend or dont spend" ) 
  • How to manage Force Charges 
  • How to use bombs effectively ( Current Phase Setup for next System Phase ) 
  • Formation Flying
  • How to Run to Time and Not Play the Game to Win the Game 
  • How to Threaten an "Area of the board" 
  • How to Threaten an ace or flanker to force use of their escape route.
  • How to maintain Escape routes
  • How to make K-Turns / Sloops / Talons less useful for your opponent
  • How to avoid having to K-Turn Sloop or Talon in the first place
  • How to cheat with Pre-Movement Reposition 
  • How to cheat with Mobile Arcs 
  • How to cheat with 180 Arcs 
  • How to cheat with Extra Arcs + Boost 
  • How to cheat with High HP 
  • How to cheat with stressless turn arounds
  • How to cheat with passive mod stacks 
  • How to draw opponents into engagements in Rocks 
  • How to use Big Base ships with forward arcs only and no turn arounds or repositions 
  • How to fortress without your opponent realizing its happening 
  • How to Fly Forward Arc Small Base Low HP Aces
  • How to Fly Multi Arc Small/Medium Base Low HP Aces
  • How to Fly Multi Arc Low Agility High HP Aces 
  • How to Fly Low Init Low HP Ships/Lists 
  • How to play Alpha Strike lists well ( How to counter them ) 
  • Picking the Least Wrong Option 
  • How to Set Your Dials Efficiently ( Decision Order/Process ) 
  • What Math Do You Actually Need to Know or Do During Games 
  • What Math Do You Actually Need to Know or Do Before Games 
  • Why Are You Bad At X-Wing 

Or suggest a topic that isnt here that should be here...

Edited by Boom Owl

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I'll start with an easy one

When to Lock instead of Focus:

1.)  You have some special ability that needs a Target Lock like launching a Torpedo or activating a TIE/x1s ATC.  

2.)  You're not getting shot this turn.

3.)  You might be getting shot, but you haven't taken much damage and you have other ships that have taken damage which are preferrable targets for your opponent. 

4.)  You won't get to shoot something and you want to bank an action for later turns.  

5.)  You really want to try and generate crits to either trigger a Fuel Leak or just add crits to a high hull ships. 

6.)  You have something else to do with the Focus results.

7.)  You want some range information to something on the board.

 

When to Focus instead of Locking:

1.)  You need to prioritize defense.

2.)  You don't know the optimal target at the time you decide an action, and need to retain targeting flexibility.

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4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

When to Focus instead of Locking:

1.)  You need to prioritize defense.

2.)  You don't know the optimal target at the time you decide an action, and need to retain targeting flexibility.

Agree. Id add if your trying to conserve force charges focus helps alot.

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More Discussion starters: 

Initial Combat Stats ( Still Only Based On 50 Games )😞

Player   Flank - Bait Flank - Full Hold Back Ace Joust Joust - Partial Grand Total
               
Ace - 3 Ship   27.91% 6.98% 9.30% 37.21% 18.60% 100.00%
Ace - 4 Ship   12.50%   12.50% 25.00% 50.00% 100.00%
Ace - Mini Swarm   25.00% 25.00%   25.00% 25.00% 100.00%
Fat Turret   12.50%   12.50% 62.50% 12.50% 100.00%
Generic - 4 Ship         100.00%   100.00%
Swarm         100.00%   100.00%
Swarm - Ordinance         100.00%   100.00%
Grand Total 0.00% 16.67% 4.17% 7.29% 56.25% 15.63% 100.00%

Summary # Total # of Wins # of Losses % of Total Win %
Joust 54 23 31 56% 43%
Joust - Partial 15 9 6 16% 60%
Flank - Bait 16 10 6 17% 63%
Flank - Full 4 1 3 4% 25%
Hold Back Ace 7 5 2 7% 71%
        100%  
Summary # Total % of Total      
Swarm 12 13%      
Swarm - Ordinance 11 11%      
Ace - 3 Ship 43 45%      
Ace - 4 Ship 8 8%      
Ace - Mini Swarm 4 4%      
Fat Turret 16 17%      
Generic - 4 Ship 2 2%      
  96 100%      

 

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10 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Initial Combat Stats ( Still Only Based On 50 Games )😞 

What am I looking at? How often they won in the given scenarios?

Could you sketch (verbally or visually) what these scenarios look like?

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8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

What am I looking at? How often they won in the given scenarios?

Could you sketch (verbally or visually) what these scenarios look like?

This is just the initial combat approach taken by general archetypes in 50 or so games that have videos etc. 

Most of the data is from Coruscant, GSP Classic, and a few other tournaments. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:
  • What Math Do You Actually Need to Know or Do During Games 
  • What Math Do You Actually Need to Know or Do Before Games 

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Edited by impspy

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Posted (edited)

More random tactics stuff because the forums are bad and should be less bad. This time Bombs: 

The Easy Stuff to Describe: 

 Things that bombs/device help do or control: 

  • Extra damage outside of combat 
  • Generally do not sacrifice actions, dropping them in is in addition to normal attacks/actions  
  • Split Up Box Swarms or Range Synergy Lists
  • Control "Jousting" Lanes
  • Protect Flanks 
  •  Destroy Trickshot/Han Opportunities
  • Limit Sloop, K-Turn, and Talon Roll Options the turn after 2 ships are facing each other
  •  Limit Dis-engagement Options the turn after 2 ships are facing each other
  •  Infinite Initiative Kill ships 
  •  Players frequently forget that their opponents have bombs or devices and dont think about it at all during planning
  •  Things that make bombs/devices easier to use: 
  • Blocking something with the bombing ship makes stuff harder to avoid next turn
  •  Seismic increases the "AOE bubble/turret range" of the bomb
  • Ablative solves the self damage problem 
  • Trajectory Simulator increases the "AOE bubble/turret range" of the bomb
  • Skilled Bombardier increases the "AOE bubble/turret range" of the bomb/device. 
  • Tractor Beam lets you move ships onto devices that have been place 
  • Devices stay on the table 
  • Moving last helps because you can set up the device turn via reactionary boosts or barrel rolls
  • Moving first helps because you can block or tractor higher init ships on or into the path of Devices
  • Things with repositions help because you can get out of the Bombs R1 range
  • Red Stops help to avoid self damage, stall to force a bomb lane, or bomb over consecutive turns
  • Coordinate helps to avoid self damage or set up next system phase 
  • Rocks help create bomb lanes
  • Edon, Finch Dallow, Genius Nym/Sixxa, Emon, Tie Bomber Ship Ability, Paige, Cad Bane, Sabine, Zuvio, Deathfire, and Deathrain all make bombs easier
  • Rattled adds crit damage (Seismic Interaction?)
  • Informant and Sense give you info paired with Paige double bomb drops. 

Counter Play to Bombs & Devices:

  • Double Reposition (Boost/Roll) can avoid AOE Range 
  • Pre-Movement Movement Actions: Supernatural, Coordinate, Advanced Sensors
  • Ablative Plating ignores damage 
  • Range Control when Flanking
  • Attacking from the correct angle when approaching a Trajectory Sim Ship
  • Lots of HP doesn't care about 1 dmg as much 
  • Small Bases spread out of formation are harder to hit than big/medium bases or lots of small bases acting like a big base
  • Decloak is incredibly effective at avoiding bombs, devices slightly less so depending on init order

And Some Bomb Maps:
So looking at new Paige Tico Rules. Edon can do this with Proton Bombs in a single turn. 

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Bob's Single "Turn" Bubbles are a little more intense. Pick any two bomb locations once per game. Add Rocks for more Bubbles. 

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Edited by Boom Owl

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It's interesting to me that flanking up through the early modern times, is something tjatvusually happened because of a mistake.  Usually due to some huge error in screening troops.

Napoleon's famous "Divide and Conquer" aphorism was basically telling people to get opposing forces split up and tackle an individually weak element.  He was essentially a really good jouster (and a really good bunch of other things as well).  

Alexander the Great's whole strategy was "I'm going to joust your king".

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How to modify dice: Generic thoughts that become invalid in many a situation in the random order they come in my head:

Generic situation for double mods: Spend Lock >> Spend Focus

TIE X1 in same situation without FCS that really wants the crit (Maarek): Spend Focus>>Spend Lock

When you need something dead more than you fear for your life: Spend all defensive mods that can work on offense needed to bag the kill.

When you roll a hit, a blank, and a focus with optics, but don't have fanatical or force at the ready: spend the focus to change the blank. It messes with the OCD of the opponent and gets to their head. It reinforces how you rolled low this round and they got lucky, given how marginal of a boost optics are, especially with fanatical or force.

If you have 2 reroll mechanics ready on a relatively bad roll: Do the passive one first. If it offers a good result, then continue spending mods to fix that roll. If not, leave it be and save the mods for later. True, each die can be rerolled only once, but there is no limit to the number of rerolls you can get to apply to one die at a time (Howlrunner, Sloane, Predator, Lock, etc.)

If you have a token stack on defense and need one more evade, but you have a focus result in your roll: Sure, you're going defensive. Spend the focus. Nobody knows if it will come back to help you the rest of this volley, but almost guaranteed that evade will be needed. Saving to focus for a roll when you focus out is a high risk low reward situation which you simply won't find useful too often.

Midnight rolling anything less than 2 hits after focus: don't mod the dice. Not even if the opponent is modless. It becomes too easy for them to natty and you just lost your lock if you spent it.

Han Solo with Lando: if you don't have 2 paint on that roll, Han it. 2 paint is almost universally better than a single result, even one of your choice.

Countdown and taking the stress: ONLY DECLINE THE ABILITY WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED THE TURNAROUNDS OR IF THERE IS FOR SURE 1 STANDARD HIT ONLY INCOMING. Don't take a chance on a crit. Crits are nasty.

Yes, a focus on 3 dice will probably do more than 4 dice raw. But if it is Hail Mary time, you have to boost in for those 4 dice. It is less likely to have a direct drawn +2 normal damage from a 3 dice focus shot than it is for a 4 dice unmod shot doing 4 dmg.

Be afraid of unmodded shots. After all, an opponent rolling a string of 3 hits on 3 dice is going to happen an entire 1 out of 8 times. If it pops you, it may seem cheap, but you gave it away if your high init ace was let to brace against the shot. Don't rely on unmodded shots. You rolling a string of 3 hits on 3 dice will happen only 1 out of 8 times. The expected dps of 3 reds no mods is just as bad as the dps of 2 reds focus and no fancy tricks. And whereas you can have a jolly time spamming those 2 reds, 3 reds means your squad has limited shots or hp.

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2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'll start with an easy one

When to Lock instead of Focus:

1.)  You have some special ability that needs a Target Lock like launching a Torpedo or activating a TIE/x1s ATC.  

2.)  You're not getting shot this turn.

3.)  You might be getting shot, but you haven't taken much damage and you have other ships that have taken damage which are preferrable targets for your opponent. 

4.)  You won't get to shoot something and you want to bank an action for later turns.  

5.)  You really want to try and generate crits to either trigger a Fuel Leak or just add crits to a high hull ships. 

6.)  You have something else to do with the Focus results.

7.)  You want some range information to something on the board.

 

When to Focus instead of Locking:

1.)  You need to prioritize defense.

2.)  You don't know the optimal target at the time you decide an action, and need to retain targeting flexibility.

I'll add #8: You're flying an E-wing and you're out of range to take advantage of anything else.

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32 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

I'll add #8: You're flying an E-wing and you're out of range to take advantage of anything else.

#9) You have a good chance to PS kill the opposing ship

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5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

How to draw opponents into engagements in Rocks

I do this with the set up.  I have an initiative 2 (two tubes U-wing), place him.  Then I set my x-wings (like/wedge) oppoite side of where my opponent sets his ships.  I basicly 2 turn all ships earky on and creep along the edge.  Eventually, they will start to move through astroids or around them.  I try and keep all three tight together and focus a ship down each turn if possible.   

Placing rocks more towards my side of.the table where I like to engage.  Plus I hate reaching over as far.

Here is an example:

 

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Posted (edited)

Initial thoughts. Range control is a key skill. im bad at it and tend to get impatient approaching an enemy formation/priority target. some related things that keep coming up for me are blockers (how to use them effectively to deny actions), 'herding' an enemy into your planned engagement area and when to use and when to avoid engagement close to obstacles.

I got totally owned by a double firspray list that used a bait and switch tactic at first engagement to run me onto obstacles and put me in a bad position with bombs hitting my persuing ships. It was masterfully done and I was left with two bad options... chase and get bombed or disengage and get take enemy fire.

Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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My tactics get worse when I'm flying fewer ships.

I beat the best player at my FLGS the first time I flew a TIE swarm, but I'm incredibly bad at flying 3 ship lists. Anyone have any pointers? I think some of it is that I have a hard time figuring out target priority, while I'm also a little bit too aggressive.

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This is a great thread and it needs to stay relevant!

I'll add my take on rock placement.

@Skitch_ has the right idea with his poetic input, as I prefer to bring the 2 biggest rocks and a large debris field.

I try to place the rocks as close together as possible, along with my opponent's three. This creates a clustered board with fewer options, leaving only a few "lanes" in and out of the rocks. This simplifys the game from a multitude of options for my opponent to 2 or 3. By using these lanes, I can predict and change where the engagement will happen. This also leads to the lanes leading to a central location where most ships funnel into. I fly ships that specialize in close range knife fights, so this helps me force my style of engagement. This also isolates Flankers, because it's difficult to get shots in without being sucked in to the furball, because the rocks restrict their movements. This also practically removes the 3 speed templates from the game, which is useful for leveling the playing field for my less maneuverable ships

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Posted (edited)

Designing Openers with Preset Options: The basics

 

The lower initiative ships you have in a list, the more you have to be proactive in your setup.  They who places first sets the trap, they who places second avoids the trap.  It is always worth it to have a set up in mind, because you may eventually play against Han Wedge with a bigger bid than you.

 

Rule #1: You may use any of your templates within range one of your board edge.  Use your range two ruler to get exactly to the edge of rocks in the alley.  If your edge is just inside range two from the board edge, you can go straight as quick as you want and not hit an obstacle.  Use your one bank against a range one ruler if you want to set up at a 45 degree angle.  Use your three bank with both corners touching the mat edge if you want to experiment with 22.5 degrees.  

 

Setting up with your butt in the corner at a perfect 45 gives you the option to turn up the board or across the board with a bank.  This is especially valuable with high initiative advance sensors boosts or supernatural reflexes because you can dial your fastest straight and charge in behind/run away as hard as you can reactively. This is also great when setting up first so your palp shuttle doesn't get forced into a joust it doesn't want (this is an example from first edition, the concept is still relevant).

 

The faster your ships are the more spread out you can be.  Y-wings and B-wings better be no farther than corner to midpoint, or they will get isolated.  A wings, interceptors, and fangs can start in opposite corners and you can probably make it work with speed.

 

It is worth it to premeasure a few rock placements that look awkward but you have a way around. For example, a big rock at two from the side, no more than range four from your edge:  If you set a small base ship up with your range one ruler against the mat edge and the ship against it, all the way forward you can five straight boost in, and the next maneuver all straights should get you just past that rock.

 

Pre-count some rule off 11.  If you fly something without a 1 straight (vultures) that want to shoot at range three (energy shell charges) and your opponent brings b wings or y wings: set up one straight back from the front edge of your deployment.  This makes it a rule of 12 instead of 11, so you can take the 2 straight, then second move if they had 3 straight you can 2 again, or +1 for each speed slower than 3 they took.  Instant range three, every time, even if you are moving first.

 

If you are flying box formations, you have to offset the front and back rows about edge to nubs to avoid bumping corners on banks.  Practice that formation before tournament day.

 

Committing last is one of the best ways to get an edge.  Set up to give your self options, set up at high initiative values, or cheat and set up last with boba fett crew.

Edited by AEIllingworth

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Posted (edited)

How to cheat with Pre-Movement Reposition: the basics

 

Touched on above, premovement cheating 101: set up at 45 degrees in your corner across from their list.  Turn 1 dial in your fastest straight.  If they charge at you and you don't want to joust, preboost so that straight is across your board edge.  If they turn away preboost so that straight is rapidly up and in behind them.

 

Premovement cheating 201:  101 gave the narrow concept, now the general. If you can change your facing before executing your maneuver then the faster the maneuver you pick the farther apart your ending options are.  A 1 straight will probably still get you caught in the same range three arc no matter how you preposition.  The faster you go the bigger the difference in ending places and the easier it is to see the better options.  Get used to that first, then start trying the slower moves.  

 

Premovement 301: Always try to dial something that gives the most options.  Generally it is bad to force yourself to pre-position, because that is predictable and predictable is dead.  Dial in something you can just do, but pre-position if they move for the block or you can arc dodge.  Generally premovement burns a resource, whether force or later dice-modding actions.  They are insurance and surprises and tricks, but don't be so impressed with dodging arcs that you forget to get mods or even shots.

 

Edit: crossover point: arc dodging doesn't always mean getting outside of range three or to the side.  Getting blocked is dodging the arc of the ship you are touching.  Not shooting a cloaked dooku is dodging his arc, because you don't let him shrug the cloak and then he can't shoot.  Blocking decloak options during the system phase is arc dodging, because any cloaked ship can't shoot.

 

Fighting pre-positioners: options: mob them.  If you are in the space in front of them, they can't pre-boost.  If you move in next to them, they can't pre-roll that way.  If you get them stressed (ouside of primed thrusters) they are on the ropes. Also, they are generally expensive without huge amounts of offense.  Force them to use those pre-positionings, because it generally burns a resource.  Kill their buddies while being just threatening enough to keep them honest, then hope you have enough arcs to corral them or enough points that they run out of time.

Edited by AEIllingworth

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2 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

Fighting pre-positioners: options: mob them.  If you are in the space in front of them, they can't pre-boost.  If you move in next to them, they can't pre-roll that way.  If you get them stressed (ouside of primed thrusters) they are on the ropes. Also, they are generally expensive without huge amounts of offense.  Force them to use those pre-positionings, because it generally burns a resource.  Kill their buddies while being just threatening enough to keep them honest, then hope you have enough arcs to corral them or enough points that they run out of time.

Also sometimes helps to keep your own arcs “wide”, preferably with rocks to complicate one of the arc dodge lines. At minimum it can force them to fully disengage without getting a shot on you, even if you dont get to take a shot at the super squirrel at least its not throwing acorns back

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