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1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

I think you're overvaluing armor 1. It's basically permanent light cover that you can't sharpshooter away, which while it isn't bad, it also isn't spectacular. 6 man Z-6 squads still average 1.5 damage after armor and defense, so four attacks from them on average to bring the dewback down. That sounds good, but it's only marginally better than their time to kill a 6 man stormtrooper squad (4.66 attacks).

I don't think you want to bring range 2 attacks in here either, as fleets are still the single most damaging trooper unit at that range with 5.5 hits per roll without aim +pierce (Besides NYWD Palp, but I digress). The only units that compete with them for that slot are the ST with a Weiss shot from the three ranged weapons which hits the same damage, the ST with the surge pilot and the main gun+ the light 88 for 5.625 hits, and all variations of flamethrowers which deal the most damage possible but are also the most situational.

At range 2, Death Troopers hit harder than Fleet Troopers. Fact. (assuming using heavy for both and the reconfigure for Deathtrooper against Heavy cover for both units.) Fleets might out damage them in open field. idk. Armor is still very good. Also, who said I was going to be using this guy crazily? to get 4 attacks against him, I would have to play pretty aggressively, and the only time I can see that happening is when I charge him to fight luke or Vader. I think I will use him as mobile cover. I assume he does give heavy cover?

 

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24 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

At range 2, Death Troopers hit harder than Fleet Troopers. Fact. (assuming using heavy for both and the reconfigure for Deathtrooper against Heavy cover for both units.) Fleets might out damage them in open field. idk. Armor is still very good. Also, who said I was going to be using this guy crazily? to get 4 attacks against him, I would have to play pretty aggressively, and the only time I can see that happening is when I charge him to fight luke or Vader. I think I will use him as mobile cover. I assume he does give heavy cover?

 

With an attack against a unit in the open, fleets outdamage deathtroopers. Deathtroopers have a marginally higher hit average, but pierce swings it in fleets favor. Hard. Against heavy cover deathtroopers deal more damage to white defense dice targets, but fleets perform better against red with surge and units with danger sense. They both perform effectively the same against red without surge.

Fleets also have the advantage of needing more setup time while deathtroopers need to reload the weapon after each use as well as to reconfigure from the suppression mode.

The reason I brought up how many attacks from rebel troopers on average is to show that it really isn't much more survivable than stormtrooper squads. It might actually be worse in practice as the dewback's larger profile means it is harder to get cover from the terrain and creature troopers can't get cover from suppression.

As for using it as mobile cover, trooper units can't be used as cover for other trooper units. As we don't have foundation for creature troopers beyond some q and a from adepticon, I can't say if it'll provide cover or not. Due to size it might be LOS blocking as corp can't see over it to shoot, but that is a two way street and I don't know that for certain.

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He looks neat to me, but I'm not sure he'll replace Speederbikes in my regular opponent's lists. I think it really depends on how much his other gun options cost.

Pros:
- Faster than he looks. Large base models cover a good distance even at speed 1, and 2 speed 1 moves with an attack will actually get you pretty far. Add in Prod when needed and the ability to walk over terrain with Unhindered and he's pretty mobile.
- Great at close combat. He's surprisingly at close combat, enough to be a threat against anything.
- Tough. So tough! 6 wounds, Red dice and Armor 1. I've seen several people here lament that Armor 1 is JUST "permanent  cover that can't be negated by Sharpshooter"... but isn't that something you'd want on literally every unit? He also won't be losing effectiveness when he loses wounds, and can't be damaged by Ion. 
- Relentless is fantastic, allowing him to easily double move or move+ Aim or Dodge or whatever and still get an attack.

- It has a Training Slot

- 3 different weapon options, including a range 1 Flame weapon and a Range 4 weapon.

Cons:

- 90 points is expensive. Especially for a unit without a gun of any kind.

- The one gun we can see is very cheap... but not so great. 4 white dice with Critical 2 is a fine upgrade for 10 points, but I'd really want my 100 point unit putting out more damage than that.
- Its going to suck up suppression tokens, which means it really wants the Endurance Training. Which is cheap enough. But thats 6 more points on an already expensive unit.
- From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) it can't claim objectives or benefit from cover from suppression tokens. The first isn't surprising, but the second is really too bad since it has a suppression generating mechanic.
- Because it will often be taking suppression ( both on its own and because people will be shooting it) it could easily panic. It'll want to stay close to a Commander, which is probably a good idea anyway. And in this case its slower speed actually helps it not outpace the rest of the army.


So I curious to see how it plays. It could be a very interesting bully, marching up to objectives and eating units there in close combat or with its flame weapon. It could also be a longer ranged sniper, plinking away from range 3 and 4 as it moves around the battlefield. I worry that it will suffer the same fate as AtRt, focused to death so fast that it never gets close to the enemy.
 

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9 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

He also won't be losing effectiveness when he loses wounds,

^this. He is basically a better stormtrooper unit. 79 points for a unit that slowly loses effectiveness vs. a 100 point, durable target that will consistently deal 2+ damage through cover. I assume that if you bring 2 of these guys, they would be able to march around and deal out some punishment without worry about dying because they would have to be focused on. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

^this. He is basically a better stormtrooper unit. 79 points for a unit that slowly loses effectiveness vs. a 100 point, durable target that will consistently deal 2+ damage through cover. I assume that if you bring 2 of these guys, they would be able to march around and deal out some punishment without worry about dying because they would have to be focused on. 

But he doesn't consistently do 2 damage through cover, as far as I can tell. According to the dice calculator I'm using he'll do about .72 wounds to a Rebel Squad in cover, while a 6 model Stormtrooper squad will do 1.76.  He's also 20 points more and can't take objectives.

But yeah, not loosing effectiveness is a strength. On the other hand, a ST unit keeps most of its effectiveness in its DLT, and it won't loose that till the end.

 

Edited by Jake the Hutt

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Way to big for a speeder bike base. The Imperial assault dewback would just fit onto the ATRT base but be dwarfed by the ATST base.

Speeder bikes are crazy good. So yeah, it would be hard to replace them with anything. The Dewback all comes down to how you tactically use them and if they are effective in those tactics.

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these things look horrible, they are basically medium based melee units with a Speed of 1 because the moment your going to want to spur it will probably be suppressed. The Tauntauns are superior in every way.

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11 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

these things look horrible, they are basically medium based melee units with a Speed of 1 because the moment your going to want to spur it will probably be suppressed. The Tauntauns are superior in every way.

Large bases, with courage 2, so they'll move faster than you think for longer than you think. And do tauntauns get three weapon choices?

giphy.gif

I thought not.

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3 hours ago, DewbackScout said:

Large bases, with courage 2, so they'll move faster than you think for longer than you think. And do tauntauns get three weapon choices?

giphy.gif

I thought not.

Yeah, the Dewbacks are faster than they look. I think peopel will be surprised once they start using them. Even without prod they move pretty fast.

Tauntaun's don't get three weapon choices, but their weapons appear to be superior, don't they? 4 red dice with Sharpshooter is really much better than 4 White dice with Critical 2, except for the range of course. The Dewback can choose to hold back at range 3 or 4 depending on its weapon, but since most of its power is tied to its close combat taht doesn't seem like it will be a good idea most of the time.

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3 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

Yeah, the Dewbacks are faster than they look. I think peopel will be surprised once they start using them. Even without prod they move pretty fast.

Tauntaun's don't get three weapon choices, but their weapons appear to be superior, don't they? 4 red dice with Sharpshooter is really much better than 4 White dice with Critical 2, except for the range of course. The Dewback can choose to hold back at range 3 or 4 depending on its weapon, but since most of its power is tied to its close combat taht doesn't seem like it will be a good idea most of the time.

Dewbacks sadly are going to melt, they will be hard to hide, will hardly ever get cover and they shoot like a unit of stormtroopers without Precise . Tauntauns carry Dodge with them, they will have 2 Dodges most of the time, roll the best attack dice in the game, ignore half your cover and will be better at flanking than bikes ever were.

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43 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Dewbacks sadly are going to melt, they will be hard to hide, will hardly ever get cover and they shoot like a unit of stormtroopers without Precise . Tauntauns carry Dodge with them, they will have 2 Dodges most of the time, roll the best attack dice in the game, ignore half your cover and will be better at flanking than bikes ever were.

They'll also do your laundry, cook dinner for you, solve global warming and bring peace to the middle east.

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6 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

They'll also do your laundry, cook dinner for you, solve global warming and bring peace to the middle east.

Wow.  I didn't realize they were campaigning for political office/courting us. 

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On 4/10/2019 at 2:00 AM, KommanderKeldoth said:

They'll also do your laundry, cook dinner for you, solve global warming and bring peace to the middle east.

Actually, Tauntauns are the poster child for global warming ... just out there shivering hoping we'll warm things up for them.

Dewbacks, on the other hand, are like crocodiles ... lived through the hot times, lived through the cold times, just keep hanging out and munching away unchanged.

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On 4/10/2019 at 2:00 AM, KommanderKeldoth said:

They'll also do your laundry, cook dinner for you, solve global warming and bring peace to the middle east.

 

Well, they can't grab supply crates so clearly they don't have thumbs and are therefore limited in Laundry and dinner-cooking.

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34 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

Well, they can't grab supply crates so clearly they don't have thumbs and are therefore limited in Laundry and dinner-cooking.

They do too have thumbs. They can't grab supply crates because the tauntaun lovers at FFG don't like having film accurate units.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mep said:

.... well if you count the tauntauns' smell they have 3 weapons. Talk about area suppression. 

Keyword: “smells like the reason your FLGS has a deodorant rule for tournaments” - all units within range 1 reduce their courage  by 1

 

the rrg would have to state that a unit with a courage value of 0 is panicked when it has 1 or more supression 

Edited by Jabby

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