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pan82

Can Hexer use Affliction with Alric Overpower ability?

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Hi experts,

We were playing Saradyn in Flames last night and got into this situation:

  • Alric was hexer and got only 2 lives remained
  • I wanted to activate Alric with Overpower ability to get next to Widow Tarhar who had Tyrus and attack her
  • But heroes said that if I did that they could activate hexer Affliction ability and Alric would get the last 2 damages after moving 1 space.

Affliction reads: " Exhaust this card when a hexed monster declares a move action and discard 1 hex token from that monster. That monster immediately suffers 1 damage. In addition, that monster suffers 1 additional damage for each space it moves during its activation. "

The discusion comes from the "when a hexed monster declares a move action..." because as OL I was declaring an Overpower action, not a move action, but Overpower action includes a move action,,. So for us is not clear if Affliction only affects standards move action or also affect special actions that includes move actions. Again the issue come from the "declares"part of the ability, if it would have said "during a move action" I would have less doubt that it would apply.

What do you think? Do we have anything in the FAQs that could help with this action declaration doubt?

I mean, is declaring a special action that includes a move action the same in all effect as declaring a move action?

Thanks in advance!

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Overpower is not a move action. It is a move that allow you to move the lieutenant outside of a move action.

Same for heroes with charge for example. So since it is not a move action, they could not trigger the hexer power

see FAQ and Sadgit's CRRG for more details

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29 minutes ago, rugal said:

Overpower is not a move action. It is a move that allow you to move the lieutenant outside of a move action.

Same for heroes with charge for example. So since it is not a move action, they could not trigger the hexer power

see FAQ and Sadgit's CRRG for more details

Thanks Rugal for your answer but just to be clear, this is the text of Overpower:

Ability text: Overpower: Sir Alric Farrow performs a move action. Each time he moves into a space adjacent to a hero, Alric may test Might. If he passes, he may trade spaces with that hero and the hero suffers 1 Fatigue.

So although Overpower might not be a move action (I mean it is an Overpower action, but this is actually the main point of the discussion) it includes a moves action in its text. So the case is not exactly the same as other actions that says "move X spaces the figure" for e.g. like the hero charge that you mentioned.

Again, my doubt come from the "when a monster declares a move action" text in the Affliction ability, as my understanding is that in this case the OL does not declares a move action, although the action that it declares includes one...

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Tricky this one, indeed !

I would say that declaring an Overpower ability is not declaring a move action, but is indeed a move action. Raw rules would say it does not apply in this particular case, then.

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Posted (edited)

This can be interpreted in either way. FFG needs to resolve this. 

There are several cards that use "declare" in combination with attack. Usually in the form of "when a hero declares an attack". This creates a timing trigger in step 1 of the attack (Declare weapon and target). For other actions such as open door actions or move actions usually no detailed sequence of steps is needed. From my perspective FFG uses "declare" in combination with open door actions (In Every Shadow) and move actions (The Power of Blood, Affliction) to specify that an effect is resolved before the declared action takes effect (open door, figure actually moves on the map). To limit the use of affliction on move actions and exclude any other way of movement the word "action" is added here. In your case I would actually allow Affliction to be used after Alric declares Overpower. But I could be wrong.   

Edited by Sadgit

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19 minutes ago, Sadgit said:

This can be interpreted in either way. FFG needs to resolve this. 

There are several cards that use "declare" in combination with attack. Usually in the form of "when a hero declares an attack". This creates a timing trigger in step 1 of the attack (Declare weapon and target). For other actions such as open door actions or move actions usually no detailed sequence of steps is needed. From my perspective FFG uses "declare" in combination with open door actions (In Every Shadow) and move actions (The Power of Blood, Affliction) to specify that an effect is resolved before the declared action takes effect (open door, figure actually moves on the map). To limit the use of affliction on move actions and exclude any other way of movement the word "action" is added here. In your case I would actually allow Affliction to be used after Alric declares Overpower. But I could be wrong.   

Thank you Sadgit for your reply. I agree it can be interpreted in either way and that the game developers should clarify it.

And do you know if FFG still answer our questions? Do you know what is the most effective channel to ask them?

Because I tried recently asking questions using this:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

But never got answer after over 1 month...

Thanks again!

 

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59 minutes ago, Sadgit said:

I have several rules questions pending for more than 1 year. So I guess, no, FFG is not supporting Descent fans in that way anymore.

Wow, sorry to hear that.

Thanks again for your help!

Anyway the game was last night and I allowed them as OL to do the affliction on the overpower (it was 4 against 1 so obviously I lost the discussion 😛 ) so we are not going to change the outcome now anyway. But thought it could help others in the future.

Let's hope FFG put more attention on the game again soon. Maybe if they launch a new expansion or sth like that...

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Personally, I see Overpower (and Belthir’s Cry Havoc) as dated renditions of abilities that combine movement with another action or special affect.

For example, the Blood Ape’s Leap Attack is functionally very similar to Belthir’s Cry Havoc, but has much cleaner wording and less room for confusion.

If Alric’s Overpower just said “Sir Alric Farrow moves up to his speed” it would clear up some of my musings on how it interacts with Affliction, Blinding Speed, etc. But alas, it does not. It includes a move action and that can get messy.

But that’s just a gripe. I agree with the general sentiment that yes, the Hexer can use Affliction.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 4:54 AM, pan82 said:

Thanks Rugal for your answer but just to be clear, this is the text of Overpower:

Ability text: Overpower: Sir Alric Farrow performs a move action. Each time he moves into a space adjacent to a hero, Alric may test Might. If he passes, he may trade spaces with that hero and the hero suffers 1 Fatigue.

So although Overpower might not be a move action (I mean it is an Overpower action, but this is actually the main point of the discussion) it includes a moves action in its text. So the case is not exactly the same as other actions that says "move X spaces the figure" for e.g. like the hero charge that you mentioned.

Again, my doubt come from the "when a monster declares a move action" text in the Affliction ability, as my understanding is that in this case the OL does not declares a move action, although the action that it declares includes one...

Based on the wording, Overpower includes a move action and should be fair game for the hexer's affliction ability. It literally says "move action" in the ability description. From what I can see, no clarification is needed from FFG on this one; however, if they wanted to change overpower to NOT include a move action, they could do that in an errata. That would definitely be an errata change though not a simple clarification.

Edited by The MechE

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