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Monkey Bloke

Limits to Sympathetic Energies?

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Sympathetic Energies allows a caster to spread a persistent invocation effects from one target to another target(s).

Spending two opportunity allows the caster to spread a condition instead of a persistent invocation effect.

Dying is a condition.

Should there be limits to the conditions that can be transferred, or can this invocation be used to transfer any condition?  That feels very powerful.

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Posted (edited)

I'd guess it'd be up to you,

I would note that:

1/ Sympathetic Energies has a very short range (i.e.: you need to be within sword-reach of both the source and the targets for the condition), sure you can boost the range, but then you're likely talking about five or more kept dice (two successes and three or more opportunities), and at that point if you are regularly managing this then your character is just **** awesome, your die rolls are awesome, or you've been channeling for several turns... Either which way you deserve something cool to occur.

2/ Minions never (or at least  very rarely) seem to gain the "Dying" condition - they never receive Critical Strikes, and they are "defeated" when their fatigue exceeds their endurance, at which point they are either lethally or non-lethally dispatched depending upon the damage source (and whilst "Dying" may be a Condition, "Dead" is not...). So for there to be a "source" for the Dying Condition , either there must be a nearby dying Adversary or PC - this isn't likely to be as common as might initially appear, and where it does occur it likely means that the fight is either starting to wind down (major NPCs are out of the fight, and who cares how the mooks are taken out) or the PCs are in dire straits, and that's just heroic at that point...

3/ As written, targets will get the full "Dying [X] clock - you get "Dying [X]" when you receive the condition - the X doesn't count down as such, it just means you will die in X turns (this is my interpretation, the rules aren't particularly clear here), so if you spawn the condition on someone with, say, "Dying 3" and one turn left to live, I would assume that the new targets all begin with three turns of life left (not the one turn the source had left),

4/ Unless other conditions apply, remember that the dying condition doesn't actually hinder you up until the point of death - you can go about your normal business, or even treat the Condition yourself, whilst you have "Dying". This is more of an issue when you receive the Condition in the normal way - because that usually happens when you also have "Exhausted" or are otherwise hindered (preventing you from treating it or performing many actions), but just getting this Condition alone isn't so much of a problem.

With all of that said, if it isn't working for you change it - and let us know if you find it a problem as it'll help others,

Edited by gareth_lazelle

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Posted (edited)

Nice reply @gareth_lazelle. The original post is in response to my character who has Sympathetic Energies and I was curious about the restrictions due to some problematic conditions like the aforementioned Dying, or bleeding, or even Tainted.

Drawing attention to the factor of range as you did was very useful as I missed that (normally only using it to spread buffs pre combat). To increase the range requires Opportunity and I keep no more than three dice maximum for anything, and getting the 2 opportunity to move Conditions and still succeeding is in itself difficult. I think with only 3 kept dice this basically becomes impossible to use under all but the most advantageous of circumstances. Even keeping 5 dice would make 2 successes and at least 4 opportunity (2 to target a Condition, 2 to increase the range) far from a certainty.

When considering all these factors I feel the Evocation as written is quite balanced from a combat perspective.

 

 

Edited by Bazakahuna

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38 minutes ago, gareth_lazelle said:

One note here, Tainted isn't a condition, it's a Disadvantage,

You can copy Afflicted though,

Yes sorry, that's the Condition I meant (didn't have the book handy as at work lol).

Seems kind of nasty though... that's got to carry some loss of honour for sure, and Glory fs people find out... and get Emerald Magistrates on you for potentially being a Maho practioner... some things regulate perfectly well in game it seems :)

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1 hour ago, Bazakahuna said:

Yes sorry, that's the Condition I meant (didn't have the book handy as at work lol).

Seems kind of nasty though... that's got to carry some loss of honour for sure, and Glory fs people find out... and get Emerald Magistrates on you for potentially being a Maho practioner... some things regulate perfectly well in game it seems :)

If you're intentionally spreading Afflicted, you've got bigger problems, as you're essentially a Mahotsukai. People finding out means an Empire-wide manhunt for your ***.

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17 hours ago, JBento said:

If you're intentionally spreading Afflicted, you've got bigger problems, as you're essentially a Mahotsukai. People finding out means an Empire-wide manhunt for your ***.

Hence my saying you would be hunted by Emerald Magistrates etc. as a Maho practitioner.

16 hours ago, Franwax said:

Just gotta say... Sympathetic Energies is one of my favorite invocations :D

You can do so many things with it, with a little bit of imagination!

Indeed, as soon as I saw it I felt it was one of those powers that had a bredth of potential. Was my favourite spell for my Black Scroll Phoenix deck back in the first iteration of the card game, so nice to see it kicking around and being useful now!

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13 hours ago, Bazakahuna said:

Hence my saying you would be hunted by Emerald Magistrates etc. as a Maho practitioner.

Indeed, as soon as I saw it I felt it was one of those powers that had a bredth of potential. Was my favourite spell for my Black Scroll Phoenix deck back in the first iteration of the card game, so nice to see it kicking around and being useful now!

Absolutely, it made the Black Scroll, negative Chi token-juggling great fun to play, although I'm not so sure it was great fun to play against.  That said, the absolutely vital spell for the deck was Rise from the Ashes.

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I mean, before you spread something like the dying condition, you would have to apply that condition to something else (or someone has to do that anyway).

Also, I could see this being used as a "from ****'s heart I stab at thee." kind of spell, where a dying shugenja "shares" their dying condition with the enemy.  Could be pretty cool.

 

  Hmm..  a shugenja stabs themselves to apply the dying condition, casts sympathetic energies to apply the condition to their enemy, heals themselves..  just the sort of ridiculous thing a Player Character might do..

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