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Blail Blerg

Are the new Xwings oddly boring?

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5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Or am I just having game fatigue? 

The new ones takes so much remembering, with the R2 triggers and the S-foil configs and changing them. Yet they also don't feel that fun to play or move around. I feel like I enjoyed flying the 1.0 Xwing a lot more and the 5Xs. 

Put afterburners on them or just make regular use of the 3 and 4 speed moves, boosts, and rolls.

X-Wings can be really fun. With crazy cheap Bwings there are plenty of ways to play more loose our of formation and setting nets. Luke likes to be a part of that and is wonderfully cheap at 62 pts.

Edited by Boom Owl

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I don't find the X-wings boring but they can be wearying to play. It is as you say due to the S-foils. There are just a few too many permutations there sometimes when trying to choose moves. I'm never happy with what I put on them but they need things on them. I enjoyed four Blue Squadron Escorts with Pro Torps but... 

 

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Just coming back to xwing and 2.0.

It might be the thrill of FINALLY getting 4 xwings on the table,  but between the new rules and good t65's, I'm thrilled.

My wife turns all ships into jousters so they'll be perfect for her.

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8 minutes ago, Scrivner said:

Concerning S-Foil configurations, in my (very limited) experience, the foils start the game closed, open at initial engagement and then remain open the rest of the game.

Unless you need to disengage for a turn or two, then closing them helps.

Unlike the T-70 which can chose to run closed all time, especially at higher initiative.

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Yes, I think they're pretty boring.  (Like Kris said, they are more threatening to face, for sure.)  I just wish they'd found something more creative than, "Here, you guys can turn Boost on and off to go with your Barrel Roll, and you guys can turn Barrel Roll on and off to go with your Boost."  It's what the player-base was clamoring for, and, as usual, the player-base is idiotic.

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They can boost, barrel roll and Tallon roll now and they have a mod slot again. They also have a good ordnance slot instead of a crap one. They are way more fun then they were in 1.0. 

I often close my s-foils on a damaged ship that needs to disengage with a focus+boost and preserve points or force my opponent out of position to get the kill. And of course Supernatural Luke needs them closed if you want to supernatural boost without taking a damage.

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Well X-wing has gained a lot of complexity and say what you want about 1st edition, the simplicity made it easier to picture Starfighters in outerspace shooting at each other. With all the additional mechanics such as side and moving arcs and different terrain features I think these new rules have unintentionally flatten out the play space. It is starting to feel more like those ground combat games like Warhammer or Hordes (not so much as Armada does though). There hasn't been any new mechanic that sets verticality other than overlapping and well that has just been it.

So X-wing has gone flat.

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youre Suffering from game fatigue. It’s an undesired effect of hyperspace (a format I happen to like btw). Play some B-wings, or A-wings, or experiment with Tie Bombers. Or play that t-65 pilot you never see, Jek Porkins, Kullbee Spearow, etc. Point is, break the norm for the night, or weekend. Don’t get me wrong,  I love my t-65s, but if I have to slap another Biggs, Wedge, or Luke atm on the table I might scream.

 

2.0 T-65s are right where they need to be. Only real problem is lack of new pilots, which everything suffers from currently, and will be corrected in time. (Still waiting for General Merrick). 

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6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Put afterburners on them or just make regular use of the 3 and 4 speed moves, boosts, and rolls.

X-Wings can be really fun. With crazy cheap Bwings there are plenty of ways to play more loose our of formation and setting nets. Luke likes to be a part of that and is wonderfully cheap at 62 pts.

That's a great idea! I'm going to try it during fun mode. 

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4 hours ago, Sixter said:

X-wings are more fun than they used to be because you can just keep the foils open and still barrel roll or do Talon-rolls which you couldnt do in version 1.0

First, this elicits no joy. It should. But frankly I want my focuses. 

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4 hours ago, Scrivner said:

Concerning S-Foil configurations, in my (very limited) experience, the foils start the game closed, open at initial engagement and then remain open the rest of the game.

Yup this. 

While this is what happens in the movies... Wow its kinda boring in game. 

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16 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

First, this elicits no joy. It should. But frankly I want my focuses. 

You know, that's just it.

Focus takes away from all the other actions, and is inherently less interesting. It's just a "hit more" or "get hit less" action. Where your positioning ones should be just as viable.

I really despise that.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You know, that's just it.

Focus takes away from all the other actions, and is inherently less interesting. It's just a "hit more" or "get hit less" action. Where your positioning ones should be just as viable.

I really despise that.

Focus is a required thing. 

Thus barrel roll with no linked focus is generally shtt and a trap. 

Not focusing is a trap. But double actions are bad. lmao. 

The game needs to be much more than efficiency, and in many cases its not

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Focus is a required thing. 

Thus barrel roll with no linked focus is generally shtt and a trap. 

Not focusing is a trap. But double actions are bad. lmao. 

The game needs to be much more than efficiency, and in many cases its not

That's precisely what I mean. Focus is required for success and that's god awful. It's something I'd remove from the game in favor of range bonus, not increasing die, but allowing rerolls.

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Okay real talk,...Have you all lost your flipping minds!? Like, is this thread supposed to be satire or what? Are we seriously asking the question if this ship is boring? In comparison to its first edition iteration? And now y'all are complaining about the design of the focus action?

I'll come back to the "is it boring" in a bit but first I have to touch on this crazy notion that focus is ... bad? I can't believe I have to explain this. But whatever here we go. Where needed, replace focus with calculate if I have not.

Focused (or now also Calculating) is the default state of a ship in the game. The game is hinged around you using actions to get better positions or shots in exchange for that focus, or to disrupt the opponents focus, and their ability to trade focus for further actions. Focus is the currency of the game, and the common standard for it's economy system, and each ship generates one every round, unless it's a Droid and generates basically a half focus. This is the nature of the game. Allow me to explain.

Consider the following to illustrate my point: we could rewrite the core rules to say the following three changes and nothing would change in game play except for how often you moved tokens around...

"At the beginning of the planning step, if a ship is not stressed, it generates one focus or calculate token." This is it's default state every turn. In all reasonability it's thematically correct as well, since no pilot would show up just to hang out, it would be focused on the mission. Let's continue with a few more tweaks.

"When a ship overlaps an obstacle, or fails to complete a planned maneuver by bumping, discard it's focus token from it." Fair right? You mess up, the pilot loses/spends focus as he tries to adjust his flight to survive a collision of any kind. That disruption prevents it from fighting effectively as it's more concerned with not crashing. Let's round it off with the last tweak, and it should become clear how this resource mechanic plays out.

"During the action step a player may choose to SPEND their focus token to perform an action on their ships action bar, OR perform the re-focus action." Which leads us to close any gaps with our resource generation and normal ship behavior with this new action called refocus: "Re-focus/re-calculate: Assign a focus/calculate token to your ship. Perform this action only if you are not focused/calculating." If you were stressed at the beginning of the round and did not get a token because of it, but cleared that stress as part of your blue move, you can get back your token. Or if you were granted additional actions via old PTL, or new linked actions or pilot abilities, you get back your default mode. Or if you hit debris but are allowed to perform actions while stressed, you can revert to normal and have a focus token. Or if a game effect says to remove the stress after your maneuver step you can get back your focus token after a koigan turn. Perceptive copilot is re-written to just say "you may perform a refocus action while you are focused." Few other extremely minor tweaks to very few specific cards like Moldy Crow and functionally no difference except you don't have to keep picking up and placing tokens an additional time each round. 

The game is built around the focus token. Every pilot in the game is focused. The question is whether they lost focus while avoiding collision, or spend that focus while attacking and leave themselves open to being shot. Or if they have to focus on surviving being shot at before they get to take their own shot. Or if they spend their focus on fancy flying and not flying casual. As we know token stripping is a part of the strategy of the game, and there's a reason for that. Focus is not there to say "this ship does better", it's there to say "this ship is normal, unless you mess up, you can take a penalty with it to do a neat trick".

TLDR: Focus is not bad. It is the gold standard of the games action economy. /Rant

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As someone who actually flew t-65s in version one (Wes/wedge/hobbie. Good times), notably during he hated Jumpmaster phase, version 2 t-65s are better. The s-foils add a layer to the gameplay and now I actually feel like I haven’t handicapped my chances of winning by flying them.

I don’t find them boring.

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No, I agree with the default focus. That's precisely my point. It is required. 

53 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

As someone who actually flew t-65s in version one (Wes/wedge/hobbie. Good times), notably during he hated Jumpmaster phase, version 2 t-65s are better. The s-foils add a layer to the gameplay and now I actually feel like I haven’t handicapped my chances of winning by flying them.

I don’t find them boring.

I've flipped closed the foils literally like once in all my games. Atm, they just make it easier for Wedge and Luke to get in and get a torp off. 

Meh. 

I've been playing this game for 3 years too though. 

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7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

No, I agree with the default focus. That's precisely my point. It is required. 

I've flipped closed the foils literally like once in all my games. Atm, they just make it easier for Wedge and Luke to get in and get a torp off. 

Meh. 

I've been playing this game for 3 years too though. 

Have you considered running your T-65's with an R2? Flipping the wings closed to get a boost+ focus is great on the turns you want to disengage on.

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