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Dear Separatists: I <3 U

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I flew a Phat Sun last night, accompanied by three Vultures with Struts and Sear with Kraken.  Opponent had Oiccun with Sloan/Intimidation/title/stuff and four TIEs.  Game ended at time with two Vultures dead and Sear on one Hull, vs two TIEs dead and Oicunn (barely) on half, for a 75-100 win.  Until points were totted up, I though for sure I was losing - without the ability to double-mod shots, Sun Fac hits like a limp noodle.  And Kraken still continues to be opponents' target number one priority such that I spent much of the game running with Sear, trying to keep him alive instead of keeping his big gun on targets.  I found myself more frequently not using Sun Fac's pilot ability, but rather using Ensnare to toss one TIE onto a rock to take its gun out of the fight, then shooting at a different TIE to try to focus it down.  But you know, dropping four red dice without rerolls is...disappointing, especially when the TIE fighters just. won't. die.  And Sloan.  Jesus wept.  That card feels criminally undercosted.  Giving rerolls to every ship in your list if your opponent tries to stay on target?  While also producing a double-stress potential for doing what you need to do in order to win?  For just nine points?  Ouch.

I am really enjoying the Pinpoint Tractor mechanic - thinking far enough ahead to keep the mobile arc relevant is an entertaining puzzle.  I am also enjoying the truly epic dial that thing has.  It's a revelation after flying M3-A's for a while (Interceptor my ***).  But is it better than the equivalent points in Vultures?  Dunno.  I've only had about five games with either Sun or Chertek.  If the FLGS has come through, I'll be picking up a second and trying a double Petranaki list.  The Sear swarm is a monster, and I'm still struggling to find a comfortable place for the Hyenas, but the Nantex is still sufficiently new as to be a **** of an entertaining puzzle.

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How are folks building Darth Maul these days?  I was thinking about a Maul/Chertek (probably can't really afford Sun Fac)/Grievous list, since I want to branch out from my normal method of approaching a Separatist list (how many Belbullabs can I run?).

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20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

How are folks building Darth Maul these days?  I was thinking about a Maul/Chertek (probably can't really afford Sun Fac)/Grievous list, since I want to branch out from my normal method of approaching a Separatist list (how many Belbullabs can I run?).

Honestly I think he’s fine with just Hate, still. My few lists with him have just had that and Kraken (maybe Probes), to help his miniswarm (plus giving him a calculate early to hold onto so he can save a precious Force charge on a round with a good double tap).

I think you can fit Hate Maul, Ensnare Sun, and naked Grievous? But knocking Sun down to Chertek so Grievous isn’t naked seems like an okay idea, yeah.

I should really try the Nantex 😶 I just haven’t had a lot of time/funding, and the Y-Wing somehow beat out the Nantex in my immediate (after hearing loads of people talk about flying the Nantex) interest.

 

Edit: I kindof like this, honestly, more than piling points onto the aces?

Nantex-class Starfighter - •Chertek - 49
    •Chertek - Opportunistic Ace (39)
        Ensnare (10)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •General Grievous - 50
    •General Grievous - Ambitious Cyborg (44)
        •Soulless One (6)

Sith Infiltrator - •Darth Maul - 76
    •Darth Maul - Sith Assassin (67)
        Hate (9)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - •DFS-311 - 24
    •DFS-311 - Scouting Drone (23)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Edited by SpiderMana

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17 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Honestly I think he’s fine with just Hate, still. My few lists with him have just had that and Kraken (maybe Probes), to help his miniswarm (plus giving him a calculate early to hold onto so he can save a precious Force charge on a round with a good double tap).

I think you can fit Hate Maul, Ensnare Sun, and naked Grievous? But knocking Sun down to Chertek so Grievous isn’t naked seems like an okay idea, yeah.

I should really try the Nantex 😶 I just haven’t had a lot of time/funding, and the Y-Wing somehow beat out the Nantex in my immediate (after hearing loads of people talk about flying the Nantex) interest.

 

Edit: I kindof like this, honestly, more than piling points onto the aces?

Nantex-class Starfighter - •Chertek - 49
    •Chertek - Opportunistic Ace (39)
        Ensnare (10)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •General Grievous - 50
    •General Grievous - Ambitious Cyborg (44)
        •Soulless One (6)

Sith Infiltrator - •Darth Maul - 76
    •Darth Maul - Sith Assassin (67)
        Hate (9)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - •DFS-311 - 24
    •DFS-311 - Scouting Drone (23)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I tought about something similar:

Sith Infiltrator - •Count Dooku - 70
    •Count Dooku - Darth Tyranus (63)
        •Scimitar (4)
        Heightened Perception (3)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •General Grievous - 54
    •General Grievous - Ambitious Cyborg (44)
        Impervium Plating (4)
        •Soulless One (6)

Nantex-class Starfighter - •Chertek - 50
    •Chertek - Opportunistic Ace (39)
        Crack Shot (1)
        Ensnare (10)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - •DFS-311 - 24
    •DFS-311 - Scouting Drone (23)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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Posted (edited)

Wait it's not a ace game with huge bid after all ? :P

Happy for the Trade Federation Drone but I still prefer Separatist Drone.

Edit : Look like the top 3 change, Drone still first but Captain Sear is second and Jessika Pava third.

Edited by Arkanta974

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53 minutes ago, Chudley said:

I can’t believe how meta defining Nantex were in this tournament!!! 😐

so meta warping that they warped it without even being in the top cut! OP!

 

Anyway, I scored one of those buggers in the last tournie and I'm looking forward to getting its tiny npe *** on the table. Also, gonna try ion torps on 404. They may be a sleeper hit at 6 points a pop, and they set up easy targets for both 404 (range 0, motherlover!) and the Nantex

Chertek (39)    
    Ensnare (10)    
    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Techno Union Bomber (26)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
    
Ship total: 37  Half Points: 19  Threshold: 3    
    
DBS-404 (30)    
    Ion Torpedoes (6)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
    
Ship total: 37  Half Points: 19  Threshold: 3    
    
DFS-311 (23)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 28  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z356X248WY324XW209W221WW237Y326X135WWWW237Y337X209WWY279X209WWY279X209WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

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44 minutes ago, svelok said:

there were more nantex lists in the cut than whispers or grand inquisitors

^CIS had the highest win rate and cut rate of any faction. About half of the pre and post cut lists had Nantexes. They were definitely there, but it's hard to definitively say how impactful.

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40% conversion rate on Chertek is very strong.  We also know some folks switched lists around out of fear of Nantex.

//

So I've played against two basic Nantex lists.  One was Sun Fac, Chertek, and a few lowly Rogers (two slight variations on the Rogers).  Seemed OK, a replacement level Ace + Filler list.

The other one I've flown against was 4 Arena Aces (who could all afford Predator and Ensnare).  While I think Chertek/Ace/Ace/Grievous is probably an elevation of the archetype, mass Init 4 Nantex is nasty.  One Sun Fac can kinda be avoided or played around.  Three or four Nantex can't.  I probably wasn't flying great lists, but I didn't feel like there was anything I could have done against them.  There's a potentially really toxic list that slaughters lower Init stuff, but probably has no real potential at top-tables large-tournaments because it's only Init 4.

I think it's important to look at multiple levels of play.  I don't mind current TIE Defender pricing because I've done rather well with them at a FLGS/small kit level.  The token stacks can lead to really inevitable feeling results.  Likewise the level of control and block-resistance on massed Nantex.

I really think the Init 4 Nantex needs to be breakpointed at 51 with Ensnare, or at least 50 to limit second talents.

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are people just not running nantex with drones?

seems like Chertex would make a fine compliment to strutted droids, and risk of self bump is minimized by tractor array not giving a fac

Be an interesting change of pace from Sear. Sure, the army support isn't the same but you're still getting probes for full mods and an (ideally) far more annoying named pilot at the helm 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

are people just not running nantex with drones?

seems like Chertex would make a fine compliment to strutted droids, and risk of self bump is minimized by tractor array not giving a fac

Be an interesting change of pace from Sear. Sure, the army support isn't the same but you're still getting probes for full mods and an (ideally) far more annoying named pilot at the helm 

I think the big loss is in the lack of Tactical Relay. Once you fit Chertek and something that can carry a relay you don't have as much room left for your swarm.

If you go without relay you really need ESC or something and that also limits options.

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5 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I think the big loss is in the lack of Tactical Relay. Once you fit Chertek and something that can carry a relay you don't have as much room left for your swarm.

If you go without relay you really need ESC or something and that also limits options.

I'd suggest taking a look at Andrew Nuckols squad from worlds. https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1193

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Some people did go Nantex + drones, but a local player who was borrowing my droids for Worlds decided that for a lot of matchups, what he really wanted was the DRK and shells, specifically for dealing with AGL 3 aces and for powerful alpha.  He also kind of concluded like I did that Nantexes were somewhat binary, either unstoppable or very vulnerable, so he wanted the consistency of more droids and sear especially with struts.

 

I don't think there's a wrong answer for CIS...well the Sith Infiltrator is out of favor now, but other than that CIS seems to be able to play whatever and is well costed enough to not care too much.

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Swarms are fun

Too much of a Hyena fanboy, though, so  I'm running six ships to fit a DRK caddie and the ever wonderful 404

Maybe better served by a baktoid v other swarms, but good luck trying to get me off the 404 kick 

 

I think my big wish for CiS rebalances (other than for 32-c and bombard to stop being utter jokes) is a point reduction to WAT!? would be fun to have that option

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Actually the choices are: 

- 2x Hayena (1xDBM, 1xIT, Probes) and 5x Voltures with ESC all ships with obstacle landing capability ;) 

- Sear (Kraken, Title) 1x TFD and 6x SD 

- Autopilot (Ta-175, Title), 7 x TFD (4 with ESC) 

 

;) 

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I like 404 too much

Searing Alpha (404)

(39) Captain Sear [Belbullab-22 Starfighter]
(10) Kraken
(6) Soulless One
Points: 55

(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 36

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(6) Ion Torpedoes
Points: 37

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

Total points: 200

 

Or Dooku

Always Two, There Are

(63) Count Dooku [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(14) Chancellor Palpatine
(9) Hate
Points: 89

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 24

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 25

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
(1) Grappling Struts
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 25

(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
Points: 37

Total points: 200

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