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Captain Lackwit

Dear Separatists: I <3 U

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34 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Sun Fac

-Predator

-Ensnare

6x Drones

-Grappling Struts

That is pretty good.  I would prefer to bump up the droids to Separatist, but you would get fewer.  

I did come up with Berwer's Skewers:

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 25
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 25
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 25
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Nantex-class Starfighter - •Berwer Kret - 61
    •Berwer Kret - Hive Guard Captain (40)
        Ensnare (16)
        Gravitic Deflection (5)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - Techno Union Bomber - 39
    Techno Union Bomber - (26)
        Concussion Missiles (6)
        •DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
        Munitions Failsafe (1)
        Landing Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 25
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)
        Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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5 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

I think you're massively underestimating the ability to repo yourself and the enemy without using an action or attack while reducing AGL and getting yourself up to 4 dice (or 5 in bullseye). Whether he plays nice with Drones remains to be seen (I like Ensnare Chertek better myself for a swarm), but he is probably the best answer to any ace in the game of X-Wing

Straight boost is so much worse than bank boost in my opinion. Also any I6 ace with better bid can anihilate Sun Fuc, because you need to move last. 

I think I3 and I4, or maybe even I5 Nantex (with bid or not) will be very good with swarm of Vultures. You can fit I5 Intimidation Ensnare Nantex with 7 Struts Vultures!

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Hrm... 2 Ace, 2 Belbullab:

  • Feethan Ottraw Autopilot (-) 36
  • Feethan Ottraw Autopilot (-) 36
  • Berwer Krett (Ensnare, Gravitic Deflection) 61
  • Sun Fac (Trick Shot, Gravitic Deflection) 63
  • bid 4

So Sun Fac can't power their own ship ability, and they have to rely on Berwer, but being Trick Shot (always good on Turret ships) and GD seems handy.  There's also shenanigans where Sun Fac can tractor over a Gas Cloud, still take a focus, and get a 3-dice turret attack while having rerolls and a blank-turn on defense.  Doesn't seem too bad as "just" an init 6.

Meanwhile, the FOA Bubbles are either blockers, or ships which just zoom in and grab locks.  Heck, block while setting up locks, and still shoot once the enemy is tractored off you.  If Berwer is able to Ensnare someone, the Belbullabs can be Lock/Calc 4 dice shots vs reduced agility, which is some major finishing power for anything the Nantex can soften up.

All theoretical, but I'll probably give it a shot.

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Hrm... 2 Ace, 2 Belbullab:

  • Feethan Ottraw Autopilot (-) 36
  • Feethan Ottraw Autopilot (-) 36
  • Berwer Krett (Ensnare, Gravitic Deflection) 61
  • Sun Fac (Trick Shot, Gravitic Deflection) 63
  • bid 4

So Sun Fac can't power their own ship ability, and they have to rely on Berwer, but being Trick Shot (always good on Turret ships) and GD seems handy.  There's also shenanigans where Sun Fac can tractor over a Gas Cloud, still take a focus, and get a 3-dice turret attack while having rerolls and a blank-turn on defense.  Doesn't seem too bad as "just" an init 6.

Meanwhile, the FOA Bubbles are either blockers, or ships which just zoom in and grab locks.  Heck, block while setting up locks, and still shoot once the enemy is tractored off you.  If Berwer is able to Ensnare someone, the Belbullabs can be Lock/Calc 4 dice shots vs reduced agility, which is some major finishing power for anything the Nantex can soften up.

All theoretical, but I'll probably give it a shot.

This looks good, but I'd probably give ensnare to SunFac and go with a vulture. Maybe drop Gravitic. 

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11 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

Isn't Gravitic Deflection worse Elusive? For me, on paper, GD is overcosted by 2-3 points.

Nope. Elusive works against 1 attack, only rerolls 1 die, and requires a red maneuver to recharge limiting options. Gravitic works against every attack that the equipped ship is defending against that has 1+ tractored ships in the attack arc, allows the ship to reroll 1 die per tractored ship in that attack arc, and doesn't limit action or movement options. In effect GD has a synergistic scaling component that Elusive doesn't even come close to and doesn't require stress to recharge.

Gravitic Deflection

Edited by Hiemfire

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The Four Horsemen of Petranaki.

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Total: 200/200

 

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Edited by DXCrazytrain

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30 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

This looks good, but I'd probably give ensnare to SunFac and go with a vulture. Maybe drop Gravitic. 

Might not be bad, but I think it'd work in a totally different way.  My goal is more to give a few Autopilots Calculate/Lock, rather than to maximize Sun Fac, but also to take advantage of the fact that Ensnare is A LOT cheaper on Berwer than Sun Fac, to squeeze as much extra stuff into the list as I can.  Two aces with 2 3-dice primary weapon ships isn't too bad in terms of raw value.

A Sun Fac maximization squad probably looks different.

  • Sun Fac (Crack Shot, Ensnare) 79
  • Chertek (Crack Shot, Ensnare) 50
  • General Grievous (Crack Shot) 45
  • DFS-311 (Struts) 24

Totally different list, but I don't dislike it.  Three aces (even if two are Init-4 Pocket Aces), plus a cheap support ship.  To be sure, everyone would like a few more toys.

//

23 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

Isn't Gravitic Deflection worse Elusive? For me, on paper, GD is overcosted by 2-3 points.

Well, GD works unlimited times when active, rather than once-per-red-move, so that's pretty different.

However, I think the right way to think about GD is not that it's Elusive, but that it removes the penalty to your own green dice from tractored.  Now, it doesn't get all the way there, but mostly.  Would it be worth 5 points to stay at 3 green dice when you've tractored your own ships, and can't get rid of the tractor tokens with Ensnare?  Maybe, maybe not.

Also, it can turn other Nantex into Serissu (and Serissu is mad underrated... she's so good).  Maybe Sun Fac isn't tractored, but Berwer is, now Sun Fac also gets rerolls, making an opponent's targeting choices a lot harder.  Or the ship you just ensnared is in the firing arc of every other enemy ship, granting you a lot of rerolls.  Might work out, might not.  Kind of depends on the geometry of the board state.

One other GravDef note: it gets better the more Nantex there are.  With three or four, I'm certainly putting GD on Sun Fac, since that's a lot of ships which might trigger the condition.

I dunno.  These things are wacky, and I won't really have any idea what's actually a good list with them without A LOT of play.

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1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:

The Four Horsemen of Petranaki.

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Nantex-class Starfighter - Petranaki Arena Ace - 50

    Petranaki Arena Ace - (38)

        Ensnare (10)

        Treacherous (2)

Total: 200/200

 

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Which would be better, Treacherous or Predator? 

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1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Which would be better, Treacherous or Predator? 

At very least, I'd make one Chertek with Crack Shot.  Maybe all with Crack Shot.  I don't trust these to have both the longevity to get good use out of Predator, or to get enough bullseye attacks.  With other ships with front arcs, bullseye happens fairly naturally.  For Nantex, I suspect a lot of the time, you'll be going for side-arc shots, which won't lead to as many accidental Predator attacks.

But on the other hand... Maybe Predator is right.  Crack Shot's value goes down against lower-agility ships, so maybe just trusting Predator makes sense.  However, Chertek with Crack Shot instead of a Generic just makes sense to me.

//

Treacherous would be good, if you can get it to work, I've never really had much success with it. But then again, I've never run more than one Treacherous ship, so maybe it works in multiples.  Treacherous is clearly mathematically strong (cancelling crits specifically is really good here), but geometrically tricky to activate.

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Honestly,  Treacherous has me the most intrigued. It recharges when any ship, friend or foe, is destroyed out to range 3, and with 4 Nantex's doing Tractor shenanigans, there's bound to be plenty of opportunities to trigger it.

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23 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Honestly,  Treacherous has me the most intrigued. It recharges when any ship, friend or foe, is destroyed out to range 3, and with 4 Nantex's doing Tractor shenanigans, there's bound to be plenty of opportunities to trigger it.

 

It's too situational.  I want it to not be bad, but if you're in an ace matchup it basically does nothing and with the nantex in particular and it's weird maneuvering and turret.  I'm not sold there's consistent value there.  It would make more sense for someone like Wat Tambor following droids, but that's not really what the Nantex wants to do.

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Treacherous is a treacherous talent. Never made any meaningful use of it, because the ships you put in front of the one with it are more dangerous to your opponent.

Perhaps Treacherous would work better on a Sith Infiltrator with a Talent slot - because that ship is mean business! A Belbullab, eh.

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You can have 3 Nantex with Deflections in front of Treacherous Nantex who uses Tractor Array and fly in formation until you reach R1. Or 2 in front of 2. That's the only use of Treacherous I can think of.

 

Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Treacherous (2)    
    
Ship total: 40  Half Points: 20  Threshold: NaN    
    
Chertek (39)    
    Gravitic Deflection (5)    
    Ensnare (10)    
    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: NaN    
    
Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Gravitic Deflection (5)    
    Ensnare (10)    
    
Ship total: 53  Half Points: 27  Threshold: NaN    
    
Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Gravitic Deflection (5)    
    Ensnare (10)    
    
Ship total: 53  Half Points: 27  Threshold: NaN    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z354X228WY356X255W248Y354X255W248Y354X255W248&sn=Unsaved Squadron&obs=

 

Edited by Boreas Mun

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The Hive defense force, very theme

Berwer Kret (40)    
    Ensnare (16)    
Ship total: 56  

Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Ensnare (10)        
Ship total: 48  

Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Ensnare (10)     
Ship total: 48    

Petranaki Arena Ace (38)    
    Ensnare (10)    
Ship total: 48      

Total: 200    

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3 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Treacherous is a treacherous talent. Never made any meaningful use of it, because the ships you put in front of the one with it are more dangerous to your opponent.

Perhaps Treacherous would work better on a Sith Infiltrator with a Talent slot - because that ship is mean business! A Belbullab, eh.

Maybe paired with TA-175 on a Belbullab? The one time I tried using that Relay, he was just prioritized as a target so that the relay never triggered.

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12 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Honestly,  Treacherous has me the most intrigued. It recharges when any ship, friend or foe, is destroyed out to range 3, and with 4 Nantex's doing Tractor shenanigans, there's bound to be plenty of opportunities to trigger it.

Treacherous triggers aren't about recharging the talent.  It's about having an attack obstructed by another ship.  I've only flown like two games with it, and only one ship, but I was never able to spend the charge.

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Treacherous triggers aren't about recharging the talent.  It's about having an attack obstructed by another ship.  I've only flown like two games with it, and only one ship, but I was never able to spend the charge.

7 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Treacherous is a treacherous talent. Never made any meaningful use of it, because the ships you put in front of the one with it are more dangerous to your opponent.

Yeah this. Treacherous is hard to use because getting a shot obstructed by an opponents ship is hard, and if its obstructed by a friendly, they're usually just gonna shoot that anyways (and treacherous just makes them even more likely to do so, which is maybe some degree of value I guess).

I think the Nantex is worth experimenting with it, though, because the double tractor (yourself and an opponent) might be able to get value from it. Or even just tossing a friendly Vulture in front of you to eat a shot meant for a target worth 4x the points.

Edited by svelok

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Dang Sun Fac is pricey

But I'm super glad ffg is charging properly for i6 on a ship that scales ridiculously with higher I. Repositioning + Ensnare + bullseye...all of them are made near infinitely easier by moving after the opponent

So even though he costs more than Maul, I'm happy with what they're charging

Speaking of maul, treacherous seems FAR easier to trigger when you have a large base to hide behind 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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5 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Maybe paired with TA-175 on a Belbullab? The one time I tried using that Relay, he was just prioritized as a target so that the relay never triggered.

Tried something like that (but it was with Kraken). Even with the Belbullab among the chaos of 4th turn, my opponent wanted to kill the Vultures. It seems that, after receiving a shower of ESC missiles, your opponent will focus mostly on Vultures than anything else!

Fascinating...

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Dang Sun Fac is pricey

But I'm super glad ffg is charging properly for i6 on a ship that scales ridiculously with higher I. Repositioning + Ensnare + bullseye...all of them are made near infinitely easier by moving after the opponent

So even though he costs more than Maul, I'm happy with what they're charging

Speaking of maul, treacherous seems FAR easier to trigger when you have a large base to hide behind 

Yes, but then they'll just shoot Maul :P

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