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On 9/8/2019 at 2:45 AM, Zazaa32 said:

Okay, then I understood it right, it would have been out of hands if also while stressed. After burners are another story. You could do 3 bank, after burn boost and tractor boost or barrel roll. Point being you could "boost" twice in a row. 

Im also bit worried now for the point cost of Sun Fac. I did few test squads and tried to leave spare space for "superb" ace and came to conclusion that it should cost very similar to Soontir Fel around 50p naked and stacked with upgrades absolutely max should be 65-70p to be able to fit anything worthy with him.

Anakin Skywalker  62p

Fenn Rau 68p

Midnight 43p

Darth Vader 67p

Soontir Fel 53p

All of them are I6 pilots.. Where you think Sun Fac would fall in here?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, it's extremely rare to see Anakin with out 7B, Vader with out Burners, or Soontir without Predator, which for Angsty and Murdery Ani does significantly change their points.

I've toyed around with Sun Fac on Fly Casual, he is tough for me to wrap my head around.  The biggest issue being the requirement to change the turret arc when you use the ship ability combined with Ensnare.  You have to guess correctly on which quadrant your target will be to pull that trick off and if you guess wrong you could be in for a world of hurt.  If you guess wrong and your arc is already pointed in the right direction then I guess you try and arc dodge with the tractor token which may be tough since you can't bank 1 forwards or you sit tight and Focus/Evade and tank what ever shots are coming your way?  Afterburners helps with this of course, but it still feels like a tricky ability to pull off consistently when your opponent understands what Sun Fac wants to do.

I'm not saying that it's bad, just that my initial impression is that Sun will be a high skill piece.  Since that is the case, I'd guess that Sun Fac with Ensnare would clock in between 60 and 65 points.

Edited by Burius1981

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2 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

To be fair, it's extremely rare to see Anakin with out 7B, Vader with out Burners, or Soontir without Predator, which for Angsty and Murdery Ani does significantly change their points.

I've toyed around with Sun Fac on Fly Casual, he is tough for me to wrap my head around.  The biggest issue being the requirement to change the turret arc when you use the ship ability combined with Ensnare.  You have to guess correctly on which quadrant your target will be to pull that trick off and if you guess wrong you could be in for a world of hurt.  If you guess wrong and your arc is already pointed in the right direction then I guess you try and arc dodge with the tractor token which may be tough since you can't bank 1 forwards or you sit tight and Focus/Evade and tank what ever shots are coming your way?  Afterburners helps with this of course, but it still feels like a tricky ability to pull off consistently when your opponent understands what Sun Fac wants to do.

I'm not saying that it's bad, just that my initial impression is that Sun will be a high skill piece.  Since that is the case, I'd guess that Sun Fac with Ensnare would clock in between 60 and 65 points.

Im feeling that this needs hands on experience to know how to fly it correctly and be precise. It is strugel for me also to understand those real capabilities and downfalls in his maneuverability. Should try on table his maneuvers on action with other ship, just to get a idea.

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Well. Points are up. Sun w/ensnare 78 points. More on the page. I must admit, with ensnare was approximately where I picked, but Sun FAC naked is way above what I thought it would be. And no mods!!! Just 2 talent slots!

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So Pinpoint Tractor Array triggers "after you execute a maneuver".  Since it does not specify "fully execute", does that mean it triggers even if you partially execute the maneuver?

Edit: another question: can you gain a tractor token to rotate your mobile arc to the same position it was already at?

 

Edited by Danomight

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9 minutes ago, Danomight said:

So Pinpoint Tractor Array triggers "after you execute a maneuver".  Since it does not specify "fully execute", does that mean it triggers even if you partially execute the maneuver?

Edit: another question: can you gain a tractor token to rotate your mobile arc to the same position it was already at?

 

Yes. No.

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34 minutes ago, Chudley said:

Well. Points are up. Sun w/ensnare 78 points. More on the page. I must admit, with ensnare was approximately where I picked, but Sun FAC naked is way above what I thought it would be. And no mods!!! Just 2 talent slots!

 

Generic I3 and Chertek seem really good. They're just under the threshold for Ensnare to go up in points and pretty reasonably costed. People will play Sun Fac because people like I6 aces. Not sold on the named I2 and I5 and Generic I4 seems a little wonky at 1pt less than Chertek.

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29 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

We finally got a high initiative ace the FFG comes in and says nope just kidding you are stuck at I4 and your gonna like it.

If you think nobody will still play (and win) with Sun Fac, you're probably underestimating how good Aces are.

I thought he'd be a bit cheaper given how unforgiving mistakes will be for him, but I don't think he's overpriced as is, and while Ensnare admittedly seems excessive at 24, we haven't been playing with it. Come January, it could see a points increase for all we know, and we'd be cheering FFG on.

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1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

If you think nobody will still play (and win) with Sun Fac, you're probably underestimating how good Aces are.

I thought he'd be a bit cheaper given how unforgiving mistakes will be for him, but I don't think he's overpriced as is, and while Ensnare admittedly seems excessive at 24, we haven't been playing with it. Come January, it could see a points increase for all we know, and we'd be cheering FFG on.

I just look at naked Sun Fac and Soontir and am like WTF. Yeah high initiative ensnare may be to good but that doesn’t mean his base cost needs to be that far out of line.

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6 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I just look at naked Sun Fac and Soontir and am like WTF. Yeah high initiative ensnare may be to good but that doesn’t mean his base cost needs to be that far out of line.

Soontir is the real culprit of this comparison. He's comically better than Wedge and cheaper than Wedge. 

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Just now, RStan said:

Soontir is the real culprit of this comparison. He's comically better than Wedge and cheaper than Wedge. 

You can sub in Wedge then. It looks just as bad for Sun Fac. His base price is one point lower but he has no way to trigger his ability, has to tractor himself to repo, has two less health(both shields), and only has a bullseye 3 attack. For all that he gains a two dice turret that again he has to tractor himself to move so it’s even worse than a dorsal turret.

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2 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

You can sub in Wedge then. It looks just as bad for Sun Fac. His base price is one point lower but he has no way to trigger his ability, has to tractor himself to repo, has two less health(both shields), and only has a bullseye 3 attack. For all that he gains a two dice turret that again he has to tractor himself to move so it’s even worse than a dorsal turret.

OK

but honestly Sun Fac base cost is irrelevant because every Nantex is taking Ensnare. 

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1 minute ago, RStan said:

OK

but honestly Sun Fac base cost is irrelevant because every Nantex is taking Ensnare. 

Then why even make it a separate card? They should be priced to make it an actual choice. The lower initiative guys could be okay with just grav deflection but really that just makes then worse RZ-2s. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 12:20 PM, Wonderbread said:

ive been playing it safe, i hope, and have gone with 80 pts without burners.

 

Alot of the separatist "aces" seem to be a little over priced on release. Excluding maul and dooku.

well i was pretty close

 

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All in all after sleeping over night on this thing. I was close enough, just 10p under that I said would be the absolute max points for Sun Fac. Still bummed about modification slot and all the indicators that it would be there, like quick builds, article photos, etc..

I hope that ffg would address this confusion here before that Friday 13th.. Game devlopement should caught these much earlier and I am pretty sure that last moment changes are never acceptable without notice when there has been content relese. This would be responsable thing to do. Good thing is that ffg  uses that app, we can see those changes made smoothly.

Dont get me wrong, im still stoked about Nantex and Sun In Fact also, still gonna get one of them like I was prepared to do before knowing any this. It will be lot of fun to play with in casual scene and that is the best for me! Competitive scene is another story..

 

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58 minutes ago, Zazaa32 said:

All in all after sleeping over night on this thing. I was close enough, just 10p under that I said would be the absolute max points for Sun Fac. Still bummed about modification slot and all the indicators that it would be there, like quick builds, article photos, etc..

I hope that ffg would address this confusion here before that Friday 13th.. Game devlopement should caught these much earlier and I am pretty sure that last moment changes are never acceptable without notice when there has been content relese. This would be responsable thing to do. Good thing is that ffg  uses that app, we can see those changes made smoothly.

Dont get me wrong, im still stoked about Nantex and Sun In Fact also, still gonna get one of them like I was prepared to do before knowing any this. It will be lot of fun to play with in casual scene and that is the best for me! Competitive scene is another story..

 

It is quite possible that the Nantex originally had a mod slot and then somewhere down the pipeline in playtesting they found that the slot enabled some bad things and removed it. But maybe it was too late to change what was in the packaging. That would explain the quick build cards showing it could take mods.

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4 minutes ago, AgentoftheEmpire said:

It is quite possible that the Nantex originally had a mod slot and then somewhere down the pipeline in playtesting they found that the slot enabled some bad things and removed it. But maybe it was too late to change what was in the packaging. That would explain the quick build cards showing it could take mods.

Im sure it happened like that too. But would have been pretty awesome to get noticed about it. They dont have dev blog or anything where they could address advance in these things. Would have been way less confusing and less of a shock. 

Being open in advance for customers is always good thing! So much secresy around expansions before reliese. 

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38 minutes ago, Green Squadron 3 said:

Well actualy i like Dooku with TB better then SunFec and you can stick a Tactical Droid to give a boost to your drones into Dooku ;) 

Yeah, Perception Dooku with Tractor, TA-175, Grievous and title costs the same 80 points as Ensnare Predator Sun Fuc. And Dooku doesn't die after 2 shots and can TL+Force.

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4 hours ago, Boreas Mun said:

Yeah, Perception Dooku with Tractor, TA-175, Grievous and title costs the same 80 points as Ensnare Predator Sun Fuc. And Dooku doesn't die after 2 shots and can TL+Force.

 

I think you're massively underestimating the ability to repo yourself and the enemy without using an action or attack while reducing AGL and getting yourself up to 4 dice (or 5 in bullseye). Whether he plays nice with Drones remains to be seen (I like Ensnare Chertek better myself for a swarm), but he is probably the best answer to any ace in the game of X-Wing

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9 hours ago, AgentoftheEmpire said:

It is quite possible that the Nantex originally had a mod slot and then somewhere down the pipeline in playtesting they found that the slot enabled some bad things and removed it. But maybe it was too late to change what was in the packaging. That would explain the quick build cards showing it could take mods.

 

8 hours ago, Zazaa32 said:

Im sure it happened like that too. But would have been pretty awesome to get noticed about it. They dont have dev blog or anything where they could address advance in these things. Would have been way less confusing and less of a shock. 

Being open in advance for customers is always good thing! So much secresy around expansions before reliese. 

Quick Builds have always done things normal builds can't.   They previewed Quick Builds for 2.0 release and Tie Fighters had 2 Mods on them.  People speculated that Tie /ln's would get 2 Mods.  They don't.   They just did it for the QB.  The QB does not have to be a legal build.

I think the opinion that Sun Fac costs too much is an overreaction, but if I'm wrong,  it will be corrected in a few months.

I don't think every Nantex needs to have Ensnare.  The lower Init guys can do without.  They probably want the other one more.

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