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Dear Separatists: I <3 U

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Yeah, the main factors to me in the relevance of I3 are:

A) I-killing, locking, or dodging dirt cheap Torrents and ARCs (republic beef)

B) I-killing, locking, or dodging almost all Rebel Generics, especially BUXY (rebel beef)

C) Not getting Initiative-killed by any swarms; you can always shoot back except vs aces

That said, I4 is probably still my favorite spot. Kulbee and Jake are among my favorite pilots right now and I expect at least Kullbee will be a sort of sleeper hit this wave. We'll see I guess.

I will say, in response to C, that the popular TIE swarm will init kill the crap out of you. Other than that though, agreed.

Edited by dsul413

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I am really disappointed to see CIS and GR get no love today. Each of the other 5 factions are getting news ships or reprints and card packs but CIS are getting nothing so far. I guess when the Ep 9 ships finally get announced, FFG can slip in an "oh and Droid Gunship for CIS" but somehow, I doubt it.

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12 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I am really disappointed to see CIS and GR get no love today. Each of the other 5 factions are getting news ships or reprints and card packs but CIS are getting nothing so far. I guess when the Ep 9 ships finally get announced, FFG can slip in an "oh and Droid Gunship for CIS" but somehow, I doubt it.

I'd like to see more obviously, but GR is in a really nice spot with their ship selection, especially with the addition of the Y-Wing in Wave 5. CIS needs a little more love, I believe mostly because the nature of the faction list building is so "what can these ok pieces do together" centric rather than "how can we fit these really nice pieces into a list" that GR has (except for say, Sinker Swarm style lists). The Nantex may really change that, who knows - its such an odd and interesting design that we may not know for a bit what right looks like with it.

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Jeeze, we've barely even started integrating Hyenas and we already want more!? 

I am having difficulty integrating those Hyenas, though.  The faction seems to suffer badly for a lack of an Ace - maybe the Geonosian fighter will help if it's not too hung up on jank?  At any rate, I'm running at 14 wins to 12 losses as I try to figure out how to load out my Hyenas, and what I have to sacrifice to get them on the table with support sufficient to keep them alive to make appropriate use of their munitions.  I find that if even a single Interceptor-style ace survives past the third round of combat, I've pretty much lost - barring their making some kind of awful, awful mistake.  I can seemingly handle beef most of the time, but Aces just **** my **** *up*.

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Posted (edited)

Aces aren't really a CiS thing, because they're the bad guys 

Their 'aces' are all the Sith (and sith-esque aka Grievous) and numbers!

The problem of aces surviving is an issue for every low I list regardless of action. While the Nantex will hopefully provide a check there, there's nothing stopping you from nuking aces with concetrated fire (rather, that's the name of the game against any higher I list!)

If you want a more reliable piece, though, there's always Maul. The effect of 9 point hate has been heavily exaggerated. Just because it isn't **** busted doesn't mean that the Sith have suddenly become bad, and Maul's ability must certainly rank up there as one of the best in the game Ito sheer dice value alone!

1) Maulraders (conventional)

(67) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(9) Hate
Points: 87

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 36

(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 37

(28) Baktoid Prototype [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(6) Diamond-Boron Missiles
Points: 35

Total points: 195

 

5 points --> hull/shield, Scimitar + remaining for bid 

 

Another option is to drop PC to get protorps on either torp bearing bomber, or even Maul himself!

Or Kraken, which is like a weak PC for maul but a huge boon to bombers!

Edited by ficklegreendice

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51 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Aces aren't really a CiS thing, because they're the bad guys 

Their 'aces' are all the Sith (and sith-esque aka Grievous) and numbers!

The problem of aces surviving is an issue for every low I list regardless of action. While the Nantex will hopefully provide a check there, there's nothing stopping you from nuking aces with concetrated fire (rather, that's the name of the game against any higher I list!)

If you want a more reliable piece, though, there's always Maul. The effect of 9 point hate has been heavily exaggerated. Just because it isn't **** busted doesn't mean that the Sith have suddenly become bad, and Maul's ability must certainly rank up there as one of the best in the game Ito sheer dice value alone!

1) Maulraders (conventional)

(67) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(9) Hate
Points: 87

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 36

(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 37

(28) Baktoid Prototype [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(6) Diamond-Boron Missiles
Points: 35

Total points: 195

 

5 points --> hull/shield, Scimitar + remaining for bid 

 

Another option is to drop PC to get protorps on either torp bearing bomber, or even Maul himself!

Or Kraken, which is like a weak PC for maul but a huge boon to bombers!

Or upgrade 404s ESC to an APT.

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Ah, but I don't want any more large base ships.  Yep, I am intentionally and artificially handicapping myself, like a good filthy casual! 

I get the whole "nuke the Ace while you still have your whole list" strategy.  But when the opponent rolls up with trip-Jedi....  Or Vader/Soontir/+1....  Or Wedge/Luke/+1....  My local meta *really* likes Aces.  Which makes Grievous really sad, and basically guarantees that one and a half Aces get into flanking positions.  And then it's all down to RNG, and we know how we feel about green dice.

Really, it's mostly Jedi that feel like a super bad match-up.  I think I'm something 1/8 against them.  They're just too bloody maneuverable!

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4 hours ago, dsul413 said:

I believe mostly because the nature of the faction list building is so "what can these ok pieces do together" centric rather than "how can we fit these really nice pieces into a list" that GR has (except for say, Sinker Swarm style lists).

Some of this is just poor design, imo.

Precise Hunters are a really bad design decision, for example. At best, their ability isn't interesting, at worst, it's basically negligible. You don't really fly them any different than you fly any other Vulture.

In another timeline, a triple limited Vulture could've had a different ship ability from networked calc, or a more significant pilot ability - potentially something with a "must" keyword - that truly changes how they play. As random, poorly thought out examples - networked calc that only worked at r2-3, instead of r1; or a non-optional i7 barrel roll that disarms you if you fail it; or some synergy that applies if other precise hunters are nearby but no other kinds of Vultures are. 

Not to say that any of those are good decisions I would've liked to see - they're super just crap I made up on the spot to make a point. But only one Vulture (-311) even tries to promote a different playstyle from the generics, imo. Hunters and Challs could be good or bad, but they'll never be interesting.

The Hyenas were much, much better about this - and look at what it gives us! Lots of people are trying creative things with 404; 32C is clearly distinct but maybe just poorly slotted/costed; the different Hyena loadouts build and play very differently. 

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Delayed Cluster Mine Bombardment Drones, anyone?

 

...not sure how Delayed Fuses interacts with it, the wording would suggest to me that you only get to fuse one mine? But still. I loved Cluster Mines in 1e and can’t wait for their return in the card packs 😁

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Aces aren't really a CiS thing, because they're the bad guys

Darth Vader, Soontir Fel, Quickdraw, Dengar. All heroes and stand up guys.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think CIS need robot aces but I would like to see more stuff to zoom around and make freem noises with for a week that will just end up on my shelf next to their Lego versions.

Edited by DarkHorse

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Well.  It turns out that RNG is a thing, after all.  Played my mixed swarm last night against a Dash/Norra(ARC), and the game was over in three rounds.  Not three rounds of combat; just three rounds.  The second round saw Norra run into a drone and Dash run into Norra.  His two shots each took a drone to one hull, then i dropped 14! points of damage onto Dash, including four crits; and took two shields off Norra.  The next round, Norra bumped again and I dropped a further eight points of damage onto her with just four shots including four crits - and that's taking into account her auto-Evade from having someone at R1.  I have never had a game go so fast.

Now, of course, my opponent played like a nerfherder.  He's been playing a lot longer than have I and has seen his share of swarms, but he just had a brain fart about how he wanted to play the list.  He acknowledged that having Dash follow Norra was a mistake.  But to have *my* dice go that hot and *his* dice go that cold?  That's a major reversal of the status quo.  Swings on top of swings.  

When CIS goes wrong...it's disheartening, but not shocking.  But when it goes right, can be shockingly right.

 

Actually, it was an evening of upsets, now that I think about it.  Two tables over from me, another CIS swarm player defeated our undefeated local Republic player.  Anakin barely caught a block and died in two turns of firing, and then it was 45 minutes of damaged droids trying to pin down Padme and Ric - which at time they finally killed Ric.  Weird.

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That's swarms for ya, dice spiking extravaganza made worse by how badly they wear down as they lose ships

The closest you can get to an "ace-like" experience (outside the mighty maul) is trying to fit 32-c in. What it lacks in combat, it compensates for with engagement coordinate which makes arcdodging REALLY bloody difficult

Issue is, of course, the cost but if you're looking for something to try...

You'll need at least 32-c and a probe-carrier, then either spam vultures or try to get a third hyena with a torp in

Because coordinate only affects one target, 32-c is theoretically best with a torp bearing bomber to support

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7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

That's swarms for ya, dice spiking extravaganza made worse by how badly they wear down as they lose ships

The closest you can get to an "ace-like" experience (outside the mighty maul) is trying to fit 32-c in. What it lacks in combat, it compensates for with engagement coordinate which makes arcdodging REALLY bloody difficult

Issue is, of course, the cost but if you're looking for something to try...

You'll need at least 32-c and a probe-carrier, then either spam vultures or try to get a third hyena with a torp in

Because coordinate only affects one target, 32-c is theoretically best with a torp bearing bomber to support

 

I mean, if your strat is "haha, 1 droid shoots you!", that's not going to kill an ace.  Setting up killboxes and chain blocks or forcing them to disengage entirely is how swarms kill aces and Vultures are some of the best because they're cheap, disposable and even droids throwing up blocks can still contribute to the attack with networked calculations.  If you're having trouble with Aces, reexamine your engage and critically examine how you set up to attack them.  Something like 42c would at best be a band-aid for a skillset that you really kind of need to fly swarms effectively.

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12 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

I mean, if your strat is "haha, 1 droid shoots you!", 

That's an incredibly negative view there

It's more like "haha, one MORE Droid shoots you"

Just because you have 32-c doesn't mean you're suddenly incapable of drawing arcs otherwise. It just ensures barrel roll wiggle room to greatly augment your flexibility and cover more effective space 

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