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Captain Lackwit

Dear Separatists: I <3 U

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I feel that net. calc. on an interceptor ship would be a bit restrictive of its movement. A 3/3/3 statline seems likely as it has no shielding and 4 hull would enter nantex territory. 5 doesn't seem feasible considering it's about half the length of a tie interceptor.

With a 3 primary it may be the most viable discord missile carrier as it doesn't have to worry about losing out on the dice from ESCs. I'm also seeing torpedoes as possible armament for the thing on the canon article on wookiepedia?

A bulls eye damage increase also mimics the nantex a tad too much in my opinion.

7 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

All in all, it seems to be the CIS' TIE Defender

I am curious to see what ends up being the power ship of the faction, if it isn't the infiltrator already.

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Just throwing this observation out, but I messed around with a swarm that ran DFS-081. It helped me time the drone deaths better to maximize TV-175 triggers. I don't think Ill run DFS-081 with the swarm going forward, but if I were to mass Hyenas I would definitely consider including it. Supporting a squadron of Bombardment Drones could be really good. Droids are very crit prone and 081 lets those bombards get the most mileage of it's hull on the approach.

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General Grievous (44)    
    Impervium Plating (4)    
    Soulless One (6)    
Ship total: 54

Darth Maul (67)    
    Hate (9)    
    Count Dooku (10)      
Ship total: 86    
    
Sun Fac (???)    
    Ensnare (???)      
Ship total: ???
      
Total: 140 + ???

If this fits in 200 (eg 52 Sun, 8 Ensnare), is it good? 

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I have not had much luck finding an all Droid list with at least one new Hyena that I was happy with.  Any advice or suggestions?

No Sith.  No Buick.  I don't care about Kraken.   

I'm happy to have a Hyena with Proton Torpedoes and Struts hanging out with Buttetbot.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I have not had much luck finding an all Droid list with at least one new Hyena that I was happy with.  Any advice or suggestions?

No Sith.  No Buick.  I don't care about Kraken.   

I'm happy to have a Hyena with Proton Torpedoes and Struts hanging out with Buttetbot.

No kraken is a bit rough because that's kinda the whole point of kraken (a few BIG shots, which is exactly what Hyenas bring over Vultures)

Example:

BadAh Boom

(28) Baktoid Prototype [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(6) Diamond-Boron Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 37

(29) Separatist Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(9) Plasma Torpedoes
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
Points: 44

(29) Separatist Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 43

(42) DBS-32C [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(10) Kraken
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 53

(23) DFS-311 [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 23

Total points: 200

 

To overcome the issue of low In targetlocks, we have probe droids. If those don't work out, 32-c is the perfect backup with engagement phase coordinate. 

32-c can also jam off of probes and pass-the-butter-bot can ensure it still cordinates even while stressed!

Finally, good probe play sees your BombBad ordnance rolling in locked with double calc and a backup coordinate to roll your arcs onto your desired target. 

Course this is an all-inc alpha list , because that's what you get with ****** 13 point torps. You may be better off with ESC hyenas and Vultures (though I'd recommend keeping the boron baktoid because he's fun) and possibly swapping kraken for ta-175 if you got a high enough ship count 

 

Of the lot of hyenas, the boron baktoid and ESC 404 have been the most consistent performers ...perhaps ironically

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I have not had much luck finding an all Droid list with at least one new Hyena that I was happy with.  Any advice or suggestions?

No Sith.  No Buick.  I don't care about Kraken.   

I'm happy to have a Hyena with Proton Torpedoes and Struts hanging out with Buttetbot.

I got a lot of fun when I flied this list this week-end:

Haor Chall Prototype (21)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
    
Haor Chall Prototype (21)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
    
Baktoid Prototype (28)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)    
Ship total: 37  Half Points: 19  Threshold: 3    
    
DBS-404 (30)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
Ship total: 35  Half Points: 18  Threshold: 3    
    
Darth Maul (67)    
    General Grievous (3)    
    TA-175 (5)    
Ship total: 75  Half Points: 38  Threshold: 5    
    
Total: 199    
 

Played against Lando Wedge and a Z. 404 is my MVP. He does a lot of damage.

In this squad, if the opponent shoots Maul, they let 4 guns firing him. If they shoot the droids, calcs for me, and Maul is there until endgame, which is bad for the opponent. Very cool list.

First try was with Grievous and a vulture instead of Maul. I hated the belbullab's dial.

Edited by Silver_leader

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13 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I have not had much luck finding an all Droid list with at least one new Hyena that I was happy with.  Any advice or suggestions?

  • 5x TUBs with Proton Torpedoes, and DRK-1
  • 3x TFDs with Discord Missiles, 4x TUBs with ESC, and DRK-1

I was never keen on all vulture lists before so I haven't looked too hard at all vulture/hyena lists now

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

No kraken is a bit rough because that's kinda the whole point of kraken (a few BIG shots, which is exactly what Hyenas bring over Vultures)

Thanks, but I should've said I only have 2 Hyenas at the moment.

Also, having to get another ship with Kraken means taking less Vultures with ESC.  I found getting Kraken not worth it.  I'm fine with just Butterbot to help.

1 hour ago, Silver_leader said:

    
Darth Maul (67)    
    General Grievous (3)    
    TA-175 (5)    
Ship total: 75  Half Points: 38  Threshold: 5    
    

That's a Sith Infiltrator.  I refuse to buy one.  I don't like big ships.  

1 hour ago, svelok said:
  • 5x TUBs with Proton Torpedoes, and DRK-1
  • 3x TFDs with Discord Missiles, 4x TUBs with ESC, and DRK-1

I was never keen on all vulture lists before so I haven't looked too hard at all vulture/hyena lists now

Argh, I only have 2 Hyenas at the moment.  I want to get more, but was saving money for GenCon.  If they aren't going to have anything other than Wave 4 there, I might not buy ANYTHING at GenCon.

I was keen on ONLY Droid lists before, which is why I got into Separatists.  I got two of the bigger boxes just because it was affordable to get extra ships that I MIGHT use.   I have loved playing 8 Vulture lists.  I'm now keen on throwing in a Hyena for some punching power to help tip the scales.   I have found you either cripple them early, or you don't do enough damage and they come back to whittle you down. 

Edited by heychadwick

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Posted (edited)

I prefer a Proton Torp on one Hyena.  Here is what I'm thinking:

Separatist Bomber (29)    
    Proton Torpedoes (13)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
    
Ship total: 44  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 3    
    
DFS-311 (23)    
    Grappling Struts (1)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
2 x Separatist Drone (21)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 2    
    
 
3 x Separatist Drone (21)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
      
       
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z327X136WWW108W237Y337XW208WY343X209WW108Y343X209WW108Y343X209WWY343X209WWY343X209WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

 

My goal is to have a big rock in the middle close to my side that the Bomber and Butterbot can both jump on.  Then, make sure the rest of them stick near enough to support each other.   I figure one Proton Torpedo combined with 5 ESC should be enough to hurt the enemy on the opening salvo.  

I have thought about changing one Separatist Droid for a Haor Chall Prototype.  If I stuck him out front and he wasn't targeted, I could change the Separatist Bomber for a Baktoid Bomber.   The problem with that is if this guy dies or is targeted, it would leave the Baktoid with no TL.  When I play people in my store, they often have a ship with Init lower than 3, so it's not been TOO much of a problem at the moment.   Not sure, though.  

44 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

If you only got two hyenas, probably want an fcs boron baktoid and a TuB ESC probe carrier

Throw on Capt Sear + 175 and stuff in as many vultures as you wish 

I COULD go with Baktoid and Passive Sensors with Diamond-Boron Missile, but I would have to cut that out once they got into the thick of it.  I worry about blowing up my own guys with that stuff.   

I'm not too keen on Capt Sear as I hate to swap out any ESC Vultures for more expensive ships.

Edited by heychadwick

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Trust me, ta-175 Sear is $$$$$$$ for the measly price of less than two ESC trade feds

not only do you get hilarious "you feeling lucky, punk?" moments by turning every drone into a walking cache of calculate, but Sear also turns any range 1 drone into a threat by effectively giving everyone crackshot (especially if 175 triggers)

Also, if you have probes you don't need passive sensors. Basically does the same thing. Plus, fcs makes them more relevant throughout the game 

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After playing a few games with the Hyena I've come to my own conclusion that I'd rather not build lists using Vultures anymore besides MAYBE Butterbot. Vultures just aren't worth it. That 2 extra hull is the difference between 1-2 shot kills and 3-4 shot kills. It's huge. A Vulture right now is around 75% the cost of a Hyena and I don't see a reason to build with Vultures in mind unless Butterbot or even MAYBE a Discord Vulture just ends up falling into your lap towards the end of list building. You can't count on Vultures being a contributor in an alpha strike delivery and unfortunately they aren't cheap enough to just sit next to Hyenas for just 1 extra calc and some block protection. I'm not happy about it, but it currently is what it is...

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Posted (edited)

The Hyena is basically 2-hull for 6 points over the vulture

Honestly, given the point change, I wonder if we're better off with just a pair of naked Vultures just running interference and the odd networked

They're literally the cheapest ship in the game and they could keep ***** off of your poor 2-die primary Hyenas 

Throw on Sear for 175 + "crackshot value"...maybe it's a thing? 

Sear Vulture Fodder

(26) Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) DRK-1 Probe Droids
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 37

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) Energy-Shell Charges
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 36

(39) Captain Sear [Belbullab-22 Starfighter]
(5) TA-175
(6) Soulless One
Points: 50

(28) Baktoid Prototype [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(2) Fire-Control System
(6) Diamond-Boron Missiles
(1) Landing Struts
Points: 37

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 19

(19) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 19

Total points: 198

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Just now, ficklegreendice said:

The Hyena is basically 2-hull for 6 points over the vulture

Honestly, given the point change, I wonder if we're better off with just naked Vultures just running interference and the odd networked

They're literally the cheapest ship in the game and they could keep ***** off of your poor 2-die primary Hyenas 

Throw on Sear for 175 + "crackshot value"...maybe it's a thing? 

So I'm in agreement with @RStan on this, I find it very hard to put vultures into lists at all right now. I only do so if the list doesn't work out points-wise with just Hyenas instead, but Hyenas are always where I start.

Which has been surprising to me, and has made me re-evaluate some of my thoughts on Vultures. When I saw points, I thought the 7 point price differential was way too high for Hyenas to be good. I've completely changed my mind, and now I think the 7 point differential is not enough.

Hyenas actually live long enough to shoot, which is amazing. So, so refreshing. They've also given DRK-1 a new lease on life, and that synergizes well with their roll linked to lock, so they not only live long enough to shoot but their first salvo is coming in double modded. The dial is arguably better, because don't lie to me you never used the 3-bank, and a one straight is so much more useful than the 5 straight (but you do miss it sometimes). Range one is still the enemy as often or not, but full health Hyenas are so much less likely to just die at range one that it forces higher init ships to play the game rather than just joust into you - at a minimum, "I can drive into range one and be fine" is a much smaller subset of engagements than it was for Vultures, when anything with 3 dice could just kill them.

Vultures are still way too expensive to run naked imo, and I'm actually even more convinced Vultures need to get cheaper than I was before. Not sure exactly what the difference between the two should be... 7 points is too few, maybe 9 instead? Which would mean 17 point Vultures if Hyenas don't change. ESC Hyena for 31 or ESC Vulture for 22... maybe that's a tougher choice. At 31 vs 24, I'm taking Hyenas every time right now. 

(Although if it was me, I'd make it be 16 Vulture, 25 Hyena, 6 ESC instead - same spread, but tweaking the value of ESC by one more point. I still take issue with the prices of the named droids, and I think 3 extra points for the I3 Hyena might be too many?, but that's where I'd peg the baseline right now.)

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I've also come to see the value in the Baktoids even for ESC. Still being able to use calcs defensively and launching ESC via having a lock from probes can be really helpful to guarantee ESCs go off without forcing them to be spent defensively and not shooting them. 

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45 minutes ago, RStan said:

After playing a few games with the Hyena I've come to my own conclusion that I'd rather not build lists using Vultures anymore besides MAYBE Butterbot. Vultures just aren't worth it. That 2 extra hull is the difference between 1-2 shot kills and 3-4 shot kills. It's huge. A Vulture right now is around 75% the cost of a Hyena and I don't see a reason to build with Vultures in mind unless Butterbot or even MAYBE a Discord Vulture just ends up falling into your lap towards the end of list building. You can't count on Vultures being a contributor in an alpha strike delivery and unfortunately they aren't cheap enough to just sit next to Hyenas for just 1 extra calc and some block protection. I'm not happy about it, but it currently is what it is...

You are not wrong.  TUB is 7 points more than a TFD for 2 more hull.  I've been seriously considering Hyenas carrying the ordinance with a Vulture or two in formation just for the extra shots and calculates for the group, nothing on them but maybe struts to keep them cheap so they aren't attractive to shoot at but still contribute.

Also, consider overkill.  Any time someone has to shoot at a ship with 1 or 2 hull left with a three or four dice shot, they may be dealing more damage than necessary, damage that would mean something on a Hyena that had 1 or 2 damage on it, but effectively does nothing on an injured Vulture because you only need 1 or 2 more to kill it.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

It’s still a coordinate action, no?

It is indeed

My mistake :(

also, interesting analysis from Rstan (though I personally wouldn't baktoid an ESC when Borons are just a point more; 2 points over a TuB is a lot)

as for the Vulture v Hyena dial, yeah I rate the Hyena higher. They both can really only two-bank, but the hyena 1-foward is huge as are the speed 2 reds (great for dodging clumps and clipping rocks for struts!

where the vulture wins out is I feel the linked coordinate is far more useful when I generally already have locks from Probe. Not that the linked locked is useless or anything, mind you, since I use it quite a bit. But with networked calc, I'd personally rather have linked calc 

regardless, I do like Hyenas better (less fickle dice prone) so that's an interesting assessment

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

as for the Vulture v Hyena dial, yeah I rate the Hyena higher. They both can really only two-bank, but the hyena 1-foward is huge as are the speed 2 reds (great for dodging clumps and clipping rocks for struts!

Out of all the games I've played with the Vultures already (a lot), I've performed 1 red 3 bank. In the second game I even played with my Hyenas, I've already used the red 1 bank. I was surprised when I was considering it that I would utilize it this quickly. Network Calc + Kraken really helps that turn 2 engagement to make sure that ship still has mods. 

Edited by RStan

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I don't see me dropping all my Vultures for Hyenas.  For one, I don't like the Buick or the Sith.  So, that leaves just Hyenas and Vultures.  I am pretty satisfied with 8 Vulture Droids before, and they even got cheaper.   I want to use a crap ton of Vultures with ESC.  I'm not sure if my 5 Vultures + one Torp Hyena and Butterbot is good enough, though.   I think it might be, but I have to try it.   

If you are only talking 2-3 Vultures, sure, I can see switching for Hyenas.  If it's a bunch of Vultures, I'm not sure it's worth changing them all for.  You can get quite a few Vultures for those points.  

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Techno Union Bomber (26)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)    
    
Ship total: 36  Half Points: 18  Threshold: 3    
    
Captain Sear (39)    
    TA-175 (5)    
    
Ship total: 44  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 3    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    
Ship total: 24  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
 

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of mistakes, just learned that Dooku's ability to ping another target DOES NOT only trigger on a miss

I thought it was some first Ed Baze garbage :o

So, that's ******* embarrassing

Need for actions to mod his two shots makes him even LESS of a good pair with big rock strut 'yenas

One last attempt at triple strut Sith before I slink away in shame

Dunno why I'm so hesitant to use Order-66. I guess it's hard to let go of the dark side. Sith are kinda awesome

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)

I have a theory that Precise Hunters without missiles might be better than other Vultures with ESC.  Higher Init, and decent in close-quarters knife fighting, and a cheaper total package.

Perhaps something like 3x Precise Hunter (Struts) [24], 3x Separatist Drone (ESC, Struts) [27], Wat Tambor (TA-175).  Alternately, cut the struts for Kraken and Crack Shot, but with this many ships, might be best to TA-175.  Hunters are Networked Calculation bots on the first round, since an opponent is likely to want to attack the ones with missiles.  However, this delivers the Hunters into close-range on the second round of combat, where their pilot ability makes them better than ESC Vultures at Range 1.

Edited by theBitterFig

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