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Duncan Howard, the hero, apparently won the NC Hyperspace Trial with Maul / Dooku per list fortress - is that the first US Hyperspace Trial win for Seps? I believe there was one other win in Poland recently.

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1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

Duncan Howard, the hero, apparently won the NC Hyperspace Trial with Maul / Dooku per list fortress - is that the first US Hyperspace Trial win for Seps? I believe there was one other win in Poland recently.

Not sure anyone has been tracking Trial wins specifically (since it's not that useful as data), although it would be easy to check with the data.

Sad that the only competitive CIS list is also its least thematic list possible.

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that's just the nature of the beast, I assume

big tournies are defined by a LONG series of games, and stuff like Vultures can be good from a game-to-game basis but they're also prone to vaporating. The more games you play, the more they do so, and the more they skewer your MOV. I can't imagine they're BAD for their cost, but...ficklegreendice etc. I'd assume they'd be tearing up the place with access to a howlrunner/jonus esque ability, but I don't believe I'd actually want to see that.
 

Anyway, since the beeblebubble isn't exactly strong enough to carry the faction (and indeed seems designed to support vultures given Tactical Relay and the non-grevious pilots), we're left with the big boys until new toys come out.


I'm excited for the Hyena because, other than all the neat toys it comes with, it'll be a five-hull ESC carrier and therefore FAR less likely to pop after a single attack. Prohibitive pricing will obviously dampen my enthusiasm, as I've flown torrents (and bombers) and know that 5 hull still isn't terribly difficult to go through, but I remain cautiously optimistic.

When the Nantex comes out...oh boy, I can't even begin to imagine what that weirdo will do to the CIS. There's literally nothing even remotely like it in this edition or the last.

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51 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

it'll be a five-hull ESC carrier and therefore FAR less likely to pop after a single attack.

Networked Calc and 2 agility, little range control to taste... Nice recipe for high survivability filler ships. (Not that Hyenas will be filler, compared to Vultures, but still they'll likely be less than 30 I'd think. Idk the math.)

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3 hours ago, svelok said:

I can 😁

k3UPXgt.png

Down down down!

If we can assume that Dooku's success represents double Infiltrator lists, I'm surprised to see them do that well. The list is a lot of fun.

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Tried the 'Turn Down for WAT' list today, but used Treacherous to get at 200p. Lost 2 games (one horribly to Scum), but now I finally got the gist of it.

 

NEVER used Treacherous. Sadly, it's not a really interesting upgrade. I think I'll leave it in my folder and never use it again.

Kraken, on the other hand... awesome! really makes the difference.

Used Tambor's re-rolls only twice in the entire tourney. I think I'll go back to the Autopilot.

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I really enjoyed Maul + Jamming Beam, Hate, Grevious, Shield Upgrade / Feethan Outtraw Autopilot + Kraken / 3x Separatist Drones + ESC. I've done fairly well with it and its fun to fly.

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2 hours ago, Pink_Viking said:

If we can assume that Dooku's success represents double Infiltrator lists, I'm surprised to see them do that well. The list is a lot of fun.

I have a suspicion it's been less successful in the more recent trials not in that data set yet. But obviously, Duncan's win in NC and the Denver system open top cut showing prove it's still competitive - just that maybe it's become more known and therefore more tried and therefore reverted a bit towards the mean. 

2 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Used Tambor's re-rolls only twice in the entire tourney. I think I'll go back to the Autopilot.

If cutting to the autopilot gave you enough points to run 6 Separatist Drones (it's close - just 3 points short) it'd be really appealing, but as is, it requires you to run a mixed initiative swarm (or you're spending the 9 points on kinda meaningless upgrades?)

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6 hours ago, svelok said:

If cutting to the autopilot gave you enough points to run 6 Separatist Drones (it's close - just 3 points short) it'd be really appealing, but as is, it requires you to run a mixed initiative swarm (or you're spending the 9 points on kinda meaningless upgrades?)

It would, but then there would be no points for Kraken.

If the Hyena bomber comes with a Tactical Relay slot, then that build will be possible!

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8 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

It would, but then there would be no points for Kraken.

If the Hyena bomber comes with a Tactical Relay slot, then that build will be possible!

It seems from the new article that the specific Hyena DBS-32C is the only Hyena that can take a Tac Relay.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

It seems from the new article that the specific Hyena DBS-32C is the only Hyena that can take a Tac Relay.

And one is all we need!

Not to mention one with a badass ability

Huzzah! 

(Tiny bit miffed it can't coordinate the robo infiltrator or beeblebooble though...)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Alright, so...

  • DBS-32C
    • Elder Butter Bot, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, I Lost My Reload Action And All I Got Was This Red Jam
    • I3, unique
    • Spend a calc for engagement phase coordinate of a Vulture or Hyena. Seems good? Competes with Passive Sensors for a similar objective
    • Slot for a Tactical Relay, which is probably what you actually bring it for
  • Baktoid Prototype
    • I1, double limited
    • Ignores weapon requirements, but only sometimes, doesn't seem reliable enough as a broad strategy (I'll bring proton torps and fire them with backtoid!! - seems bad) but rather is a bit situational
    • Double missile slots, which is probably what you actually bring them for
  • Bombardment Drone
    • I3, triple limited
    • Launches things 1 straight
    • Don't not take fuses and then try to launch a mine
    • Double device slots
  • Trade Federation / Separatist Drone
    • I1/I3 Generics
    • Roger Roger
    • Missile, Device, and Torp slots
    • Please start at like 25 points and not at like 30
  • TA-175
    • Literally just Corpse Explosion from Diablo
    • Don't play CIS without knowing how Simultaneous Fire works
    • Probably the only other Relay so far that competes with Kraken
    • CIS has a lot of cards that create situations where there's a right decision and a wrong decision but neither player knows which is which

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Posted (edited)

Passive sensors ain't got **** on 32-coordinate (...okay, we need to see point costs firsts)

But passive sensors don't let hyenas engagement phase barrel roll arcdodge/counter-arc-dodge --> linked targetlock...

Plus 32-coordinate can ferry kraken around . Modsmodsmods 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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38 minutes ago, svelok said:

Trade Federation Techno Union Bomber / Separatist Drone Bomber

  • I1/I3 Generics
  • Roger Roger
  • Missile, Device, and Torp slots
  • Please start at like 25 points and not at like 30

 

swz41_techno-union-bomber.pngswz41_separatist-bomber.png

So it doesn't bite you at the table when an opponent rattles the names off leaving you scratching your head as to what they have available. :) 

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5 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

swz41_techno-union-bomber.pngswz41_separatist-bomber.png

So it doesn't bite you at the table when an opponent rattles the names off leaving you scratching your head as to what they have available. :) 

so THAT's the techno union army (that is at your disposal, count)

 

and yeah, considering this thing is one off a TIE bomber and is packing the weaker calculate action...better be cheapo!

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3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

so THAT's the techno union army (that is at your disposal, count)

 

and yeah, considering this thing is one off a TIE bomber and is packing the weaker calculate action...better be cheapo!

Also considering it looks like the generics will have 1 less device and missile slot than the TIE/Sa.

In summary, Lowest I is -1 under the TIE, Calc instead of Focus, looks to have 2 less upgrade slots (though 1 may have been replaced with a sensor slot). The dials seem to be similar power wise to me with the Hyena favoring tighter in advanced maneuvers and getting a red 5 straight as well as blue hard 2s. Might get prorated for the ship ability against it being massed with too many upgrades though. 25 at the minimum and 27 at the cringey max is the range I'm thinking.

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3 hours ago, RStan said:

swz41_ta-175.png

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO KEYWORDS

"destroyed" vs "removed"

Then look at simo-fire rules...

Daaang.

At my last tournament I had a couple of opponents who were like "why aren't you removing your dead Vulture" and I had to explain the way the Simultaneous Fire rule was worded, and how it did in fact matter when I've still got a calculate on him and he's got buddies. Giving your buddies even more calculates for defense against that same initiative when you pop sounds really great!

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11 minutes ago, svelok said:

swz40_card-plasma-torpedoes.png

So it mostly got discussed after the preview stream, but:

At what price would you put Plasma Torps + Passive Sensors on a Hyena, over Energy Shells?

I think it might mainly depend if the squad already has DRKs in them. If DRKs then probably stick to ESCs. If no DRKs, then Passive Plasmas still seems good. 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, svelok said:

swz40_card-plasma-torpedoes.png

So it mostly got discussed after the preview stream, but:

At what price would you put Plasma Torps + Passive Sensors on a Hyena, over Energy Shells?

plasmas are weird because they're a 3 die attack that CAN do more than 3's dice of damage...sometimes (and can be canceled as any other "3 damage" would, since the shield loss only kicks in on hits)

I'd personally see them hovering around the concussion/barrage missile cost (concussion is weird in that it can flip a card for more than 3 damage; barrage are just high charge and easier to fire) between 6 to 8.

 

Sensors are more difficult to parse, since their effectiveness varies wildly. Low initiative ships bearing target-lock ordnance (therefore generally 2-die ships) are the biggest beneficiaries...so the Hyena, OS-1, and punisher (though the OS-1 is eh because ASLAM won't let you use the sensor action; action-bar only) with the Hyena probably being the cheapest and therefore best platform...who could've guessed!?

If we make them too expensive, they're kinda pointless. If we make em too cheap, they're kinda going to take over other low I ships as better jousters.

So, if I guess Hyenas are 26 base (based mainly on Energy Shell vultures) + plasmas are 8 = 34, a 3-to-4 point sensors will keep them on par with the I 1 beeblebubble

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 hours ago, svelok said:
  • Ignores weapon requirements, but only sometimes, doesn't seem reliable enough as a broad strategy (I'll bring proton torps and fire them with backtoid!! - seems bad) but rather is a bit situational

so it turns out I actually misread this ability and I'm way more interested in it now

swz41_baktoid.png

  • While you perform a special attack (missile, torp, etc)
  • If a friendly Vulture/Hyena has the defender locked (note- not another friendly!)
  • You can ignore the focus/lock/calc requirement

So, some things you can do...

  • use passive sensors to take a lock, and then fire barrage rockets
  • use land o'lakes (aka bigger butter bot aka DBS-32C) to coordinate an engagement phase lock to one Hyena, who then enables a pair of Baktoids to lob torps with a Kraken calc stack
  • weird things with DRK-1 I guess but generally speaking if you can get a lock you want to have it and spend it
  • get a lock from something, use it to just fire energy shells with rerolls and borrow calcs from friends to double mod, no crit conversion is whatever
  • really need points to know which if any of these weird munitions based builds are viable, you don't want to pay for expensive weapons to just single mod them (see: instinctive aim, targeting synchronizer, synched consoles, etcetc)

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