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Captain Lackwit

Dear Separatists: I <3 U

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I didn't care about Wave 3. But then I played around the Separatists in Fly Casual.

Oh my sweet baby jesus they are everything I want them to be. Networked Calculations is straight up savagery. They cost absolutely NOTHING. You're FINE using Trade Federation Drones, why wouldn't you? Sure, throw in an ace, you can afford it!

There's almost nothing they cannot do with just these three ships in my experience. Not super powerful, not super strong, not super agile, but their dials... Their OPTIONS... TheiR CLOUD COMPUTING

ALL HAIL THE BEZOS FACTION

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Posted (edited)

I've been playing them for 3 weeks now.  I just got my 8th Vulture last night.   

Init 3 Separatist Droids are so much better than Init 1 Trade Federation Droids.  The Init helps them so much much against many enemy ships.  It has flat out won me games.  All of my opponents have stated that it's made a big difference in our games.  

With that in mind, I had my worst case of bad luck last night and these things got one shot so often.   I am looking to throw in a Buick (Belubalub) with K2-B4 as I think it will be better than Kraken.

 

Also:   Save your Confederate credits, boys, the Separatists will rise again!

Edited by heychadwick

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4 minutes ago, Innese said:

I can’t bring myself to try them... As much as I love the token stacking/sharing shenanigans, every time my eyes fall upon the combination of 3 Hull 2 Agility I get this odd chill; I know my dice will fail me.

They definitely melt quickly.  Last night, I even had Shield Upgrades on them (had some extra points and nothing else to do with them), and that managed to help them hang on past the first attack, usually, but not enough to actually allow them to accomplish anything.

Part of it may have been that I was trying to play with K2-B4, and after those games, I'm not convinced it's feasible to use anything other than Kraken.  Everything they do requires a calculate, so without Kraken, they are constantly running out before they can pull any of their shenanigans.  I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire faction resting on a single upgrade.

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2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

They definitely melt quickly.  Last night, I even had Shield Upgrades on them (had some extra points and nothing else to do with them), and that managed to help them hang on past the first attack, usually, but not enough to actually allow them to accomplish anything.

Part of it may have been that I was trying to play with K2-B4, and after those games, I'm not convinced it's feasible to use anything other than Kraken.  Everything they do requires a calculate, so without Kraken, they are constantly running out before they can pull any of their shenanigans.  I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire faction resting on a single upgrade.

I played against a squad of 6 with Energy Shells and a Kraken-carrying Bulbasaur last weekend and every round I was popping 1 before it had a chance to fire.

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3 minutes ago, Innese said:

I played against a squad of 6 with Energy Shells and a Kraken-carrying Bulbasaur last weekend and every round I was popping 1 before it had a chance to fire.

Were they Init 1?  I have found I3 to be far superior. 

Also, idea with K2 is to spend the Calc token instead of dying.  Too often I would be one shot and still have my Calc token.  This would allow me to stay alive, but not have Calc.

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I think the faction is probably very bad, but it certainly has tricks and I'm enjoying them.

The vulture is hands down the most frustrating dial I've ever played with, somehow managing to be incredible and garbage in equal measure.  There's pretty much never an average move for a Vulture to make - either your 2 turn barrel/calc is good and it's amazing, or it's not and you're left cursing a 1k for being useless, or why is a 3 bank red, why cant I just 1 bank... etc.


 

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43 minutes ago, Innese said:

I can’t bring myself to try them... As much as I love the token stacking/sharing shenanigans, every time my eyes fall upon the combination of 3 Hull 2 Agility I get this odd chill; I know my dice will fail me.

I've played with my fiance yesterday - My last Vulture, on 1 hull left, was defending for 5 rounds against 2 Torrents and Delta... I have faith in my dice.

I gave him nickname "Brave little droid" :D

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37 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

They definitely melt quickly.  Last night, I even had Shield Upgrades on them (had some extra points and nothing else to do with them), and that managed to help them hang on past the first attack, usually, but not enough to actually allow them to accomplish anything.

Part of it may have been that I was trying to play with K2-B4, and after those games, I'm not convinced it's feasible to use anything other than Kraken.  Everything they do requires a calculate, so without Kraken, they are constantly running out before they can pull any of their shenanigans.  I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire faction resting on a single upgrade.

Even with Kraken you run out.  Kraken lets you carry tokens into the intial engagement but once you're firing you'll start spending those tokens and once they're gone Kraken tends to become dead weight.

I don't think any of the tac relays are particularly good.  Kraken is probably the best, but it's too expensive.

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30 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Were they Init 1?  I have found I3 to be far superior. 

Also, idea with K2 is to spend the Calc token instead of dying.  Too often I would be one shot and still have my Calc token.  This would allow me to stay alive, but not have Calc.

Yup it was the Init 1s, alongside Seer (Sear?) I think. I was running Emon (4) and 2 Black Sun Assassins (3) and just kept popping them.

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8 minutes ago, svelok said:

My early suspicions on CIS are that most of the faction is overcosted. 

It's all so super cool and fun, though, that I have a hard time finding any reason to not just play nothing but CIS for three months and then hope for some favorable changes in July.

I'm not sure it's a cost thing as much as a mechanics problem. 

I think the faction is super variance-dependent in that you've got relatively flimsy ships and for the most part rubbish dice mods.  Roll above average dice and calculate is all the dice mods you'll ever need, you can carry tokens forward with Kraken or spend them on cool effects, and you're a fearsome threat.  But roll bad/average dice and your ships explode before they can do anything, all your fancy networking shenanigans are a sticking plaster on a gaping wound, all your effects turn off and you're just space debris waiting to happen.

If you took a metric of what has historically resulted in strong squads in X-Wing (being a powerful jousting threat, being a high-I arc dodger, having incredibly strong defences) and the CIS faction almost entirely whiffs on it all.

They're fun but I think your ability to win/lose with the faction is hella dependent on your dice.

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19 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:


The vulture is hands down the most frustrating dial I've ever played with, somehow managing to be incredible and garbage in equal measure.  There's pretty much never an average move for a Vulture to make - either your 2 turn barrel/calc is good and it's amazing, or it's not and you're left cursing a 1k for being useless, or why is a 3 bank red, why cant I just 1 bank... etc.

Really?!?!?  I don't have too many problems with the dial.  I have found that I am using a lot of the 1 hard turn, 2 straight,  2 bank, or 2 hard turn the most.  I do like the 1 K-turn and when facing off against squirrely Jedi it gets used a lot.  Only last night did I actually use the Barrel Roll and Calc linked action for the first time in 3 weeks.  I find I don't really need the BR.  

There are times I miss the 3 Bank, but I've learned to deal with it.  

11 minutes ago, Innese said:

Yup it was the Init 1s, alongside Seer (Sear?) I think. I was running Emon (4) and 2 Black Sun Assassins (3) and just kept popping them.

If you had Init 3 guys, you could've fired before the Black Sun Assassins.  Even if killed that round, you would've still gotten to fire.  

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6 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

I'm not sure it's a cost thing as much as a mechanics problem. 

I think the faction is super variance-dependent in that you've got relatively flimsy ships and for the most part rubbish dice mods.  Roll above average dice and calculate is all the dice mods you'll ever need, you can carry tokens forward with Kraken or spend them on cool effects, and you're a fearsome threat.  But roll bad/average dice and your ships explode before they can do anything, all your fancy networking shenanigans are a sticking plaster on a gaping wound, all your effects turn off and you're just space debris waiting to happen.

If you took a metric of what has historically resulted in strong squads in X-Wing (being a powerful jousting threat, being a high-I arc dodger, having incredibly strong defences) and the CIS faction almost entirely whiffs on it all.

They're fun but I think your ability to win/lose with the faction is hella dependent on your dice.

I agree with this.  My dice are pretty regular and maybe a tad lucky more than the average bear....except last night.  My green dice were terrible and my opponent's dice were absolutely amazing.  It was.....very frustrating.    Still, his dice weren't perfect and I managed to kill 1 Jedi and get the other two down to a single hull before I lost my last Vulture.

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The Hyena will help Separatist list building out I’m sure. I’m interested to see what wave 5 will be. But I’m pretty happy with where they’re at right now, too. Sure, dice can screw you, but that’s most lists in my opinion.

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18 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

Even with Kraken you run out.  Kraken lets you carry tokens into the intial engagement but once you're firing you'll start spending those tokens and once they're gone Kraken tends to become dead weight.

I don't think any of the tac relays are particularly good.  Kraken is probably the best, but it's too expensive.

This is going to be a tough balancing act.  On the one hand, we don't want Seps to get enough free, stacked tokens that they become unstoppable.  On the other hand, they definitely need more than they're getting now.  Will we find a balance, or will they just swing from one extreme to the other?

16 minutes ago, svelok said:

My early suspicions on CIS are that most of the faction is overcosted. 

It's all so super cool and fun, though, that I have a hard time finding any reason to not just play nothing but CIS for three months and then hope for some favorable changes in July.

Fair enough.  For my part, mine will stay in storage until the bomber drops, at which point I'll get them out again for a couple games before going back to the other, more fun factions.

15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

CIS is cool. Im just bad at X-Wing. 

I'm bad at X-Wing, too.  But with literally every single other faction, even Scum, I can at least see some potential as to how they could be useful in the hands of a skilled player.  Maybe I'll start seeing that once some of the other players in my group pick them up, but for now I am thoroughly underwhelmed. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

They're fun but I think your ability to win/lose with the faction is hella dependent on your dice.

This has been my experience, vultures are very variance dependent, and not just  dice luck: crit draws are huge. 

And Kraken has been easily the best relay for me.

Edited by mcintma

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5 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

I'm not sure it's a cost thing as much as a mechanics problem. 

I disagree with this. And it's something I see people say a lot, that strikes me as odd.

So, you talk about variance, and reliance on dice, and whatever... but isn't that just talking about ESC Vultures?

What about a bunch of generic Belbullabs with Impervium flying together? Or a pair of generic Infiltrators with both force crew? What about missile-less Grappling Struts Vultures alongside a Soulless/Impervium Grievous? Or a triple Discord Missiles list? Or just 3-ship Maul, Dooku, Grievous?

Maybe there's some good stuff still hidden in there. Plenty of people don't own a collection to test all that stuff; if random off-the-wall CIS lists start winning events I'll take notice. 

But until then, everybody is almost implicitly looking at CIS as "Energy Shell Vultures: The Faction; Guest-Starring Darth Maul". Is everybody just missing something? Sure, I'd believe it. But right now, it sure looks like everything in CIS that isn't Darth Maul or Energy Shell Charges is overcosted.

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2 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

CIS looks quite interesting, but I don't have the extra jack to invest in any new faction.... plus, @heychadwick had to drop what, $20 a Vulture? Wow... that adds up fast man. Still looking for that 'independently wealthy' thing.

...where's my tea?

Yeah....I've been saving my Xmas cash for it.  I've bought nothing else this year.  I have no interest in rebuying ships I already have that have come out, even if a part moves.  I am not getting everything from the faction and have zero interest in the Sith ship.   So, I got two Servants of Strike and 4 Vulture Blisters.   I need to actually play with more Buicks (Belabalubs).  I've got a list that I need to try out:

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •General Grievous - 47
    •General Grievous - Ambitious Cyborg (47)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •Wat Tambor - 51
    •Wat Tambor - Techno Union Foreman (43)
        Treacherous (3)
        •K2-B4 (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
    Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
    Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
    Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
    Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
    Trade Federation Drone - (20)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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37 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

I think the faction is probably very bad, but it certainly has tricks and I'm enjoying them.

The vulture is hands down the most frustrating dial I've ever played with, somehow managing to be incredible and garbage in equal measure.  There's pretty much never an average move for a Vulture to make - either your 2 turn barrel/calc is good and it's amazing, or it's not and you're left cursing a 1k for being useless, or why is a 3 bank red, why cant I just 1 bank... etc.


 

 

In the last 10 games, I have done 0 bank maneuvers.  Just forget banking is a thing, you'll be happier

 

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2 minutes ago, svelok said:

But until then, everybody is almost implicitly looking at CIS as "Energy Shell Vultures: The Faction; Guest-Starring Darth Maul". Is everybody just missing something? Sure, I'd believe it. But right now, it sure looks like everything in CIS that isn't Darth Maul or Energy Shell Charges is overcosted.

I agree that everyone seems fixated on Maul.   I'm not, but hey, I'm odd.  

I will say that I've had good luck with Grappling Struts.  It takes some real getting used to as I've spent 7 years NOT trying to hit asteroids, but if you plan on having Grapplers, you can use them to your advantage.  I ended up having 2 Vultures sit on a rock vs the last Jedi that kept trying to angle in without getting shot at (he was down to 1 or 2 hull).  It was impossible as I could just rotate on the rock and one could always cover the other's flank.  Also, I got the defensive bonus, but he didn't (when shooting through a rock).   

What I have found is that you shouldn't get the whole list with Grapplers as they are expensive at 3 pts, but a couple of them are good.  I also wouldn't say you should go without ESC.  It's perfect to sit on the rock, fire, and reload.   Also, Butterbot (DFS-31`1) is good with Grapplers to sit and pass out the butter, I mean Calc tokens.  

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2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Also, I got the defensive bonus, but he didn't (when shooting through a rock).   

Yeah, but with how weak they are, even the defensive bonus doesn't help much, especially with so many lists with Trick Shot and other through-obstacle bonuses.

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