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Victarion13

Old VS New, or kind of: what would you like to change?

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Some of us started to play with this edition, some other are long time player, or not so long (I started to play the legend of the five rings with the third edition of the role play game, for example). Some old players have big nostalgia about some events that happened in the old lore.

With many good stories and many good things from FFG, we all are starting to speculate about the future of Rokugan in the new lore. In this occasion, however, I would like to ask to old player what would you like to change? There is any part in the old lore that you really didn't like and you hope it will never happen again in the new lore?

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Just forgot to write what I want to change.

Akodo Totsuri to never be a ronin. A new emperor, maybe, it's not a big problem for me. But be a ronin and create an army of ronin... ehm, no thanks. I really didn't like too much that part.

Also with the new story and how much Akodo is honorable see him be a ronin would be a shame, and also something we saw so many times that I am so tired of it. Better see him die for my point of view.

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While I find it fun to play the bad guy, I've always felt that Fu Leng's story should ultimately be one of redemption.

There are some similarities in attitude between Sotorii and 'pre-fall to Jigoku' Fu Leng.  Jigoku tormented, twisted, and corrupted Fu Leng using him as his agent to wage war on Rokugan.......a Rokugan that had be "invaded" by these alien Kami that were reshaping the Rokugan that Jigoku was used to.

I've always wanted they to he some sort of revelation that the history of the 7 thunders and banishment of Fu Lang had gotten somewhat lost and/or misunderstood over time.  That, yes Fu Lang was thretening Rokugan, but, under the influence and control of Jigoku.

Now Fu Lang is learning to control the Shadowlands better and is a bigger threat to Jigoku should he become aware that he can break the hold Jigoku would have over him........and that ultimately Rokugan needs to redeem Fu Leng as they will need his strength when an larger threat comes to threaten Rokugan.

But if I can't have that then I'll take my glowey ayes and extra limbs to better help me burn Rokugan to the ground.

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Phoenix hubris should absolutely be a thing- but it should also get backed up at least as often as it gets punctured. It would also be nice if the spiritual threats they always get on about weren't things the other clans could just ignore if it suited them. They had a distressing tendency to be either outright wrong, or technically right but totally irrelevant.

Lion generals should get to show actual tactical aptitude- in the old lore, they never really came across as being terribly capable- they just had a massive army.

The Mantis should not have a monopoly on naval capability- best, sure, but in the old lore, it was so overwhelming that almost nobody else ever bothered to come out and play. I also have "fond" memories of Winter Court IV, where the Crab were asking for naval support in the Sea of Shadows, and not one Phoenix player was aware we even had a navy worth talking about.

If we have Thunders, I want different Thunders. Just to shake things up a bit.

The Nothing has already been changed in a way I appreciate.

Foreign stuff is already more-present, which I generally approve of- hopefully they keep it to its current level, rather than increasing it unduly. Having meaningful foreign contact gives the Unicorn something to do, and heaven knows, they needed it in the old lore.

More stuff will probably come to mind.

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3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

The Nothing has already been changed in a way I appreciate.

Foreign stuff is already more-present, which I generally approve of- hopefully they keep it to its current level, rather than increasing it unduly. Having meaningful foreign contact gives the Unicorn something to do, and heaven knows, they needed it in the old lore.

How has the Nothing been changed?

I would love more foreign stuff. Both in unicorn and story wise. Perphaps a cycle or big box focusing on foreign cultures (not only the arab thing of the unicorns) would be nice.

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12 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

While I find it fun to play the bad guy, I've always felt that Fu Leng's story should ultimately be one of redemption.

There are some similarities in attitude between Sotorii and 'pre-fall to Jigoku' Fu Leng.  Jigoku tormented, twisted, and corrupted Fu Leng using him as his agent to wage war on Rokugan.......a Rokugan that had be "invaded" by these alien Kami that were reshaping the Rokugan that Jigoku was used to.

I've always wanted they to he some sort of revelation that the history of the 7 thunders and banishment of Fu Lang had gotten somewhat lost and/or misunderstood over time.  That, yes Fu Lang was thretening Rokugan, but, under the influence and control of Jigoku.

Now Fu Lang is learning to control the Shadowlands better and is a bigger threat to Jigoku should he become aware that he can break the hold Jigoku would have over him........and that ultimately Rokugan needs to redeem Fu Leng as they will need his strength when an larger threat comes to threaten Rokugan.

But if I can't have that then I'll take my glowey ayes and extra limbs to better help me burn Rokugan to the ground.

Could be interesting.

Like, be a new and good Satan, replacing some other guy (like Emma-o, and other as well).

54 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

 

The Mantis should not have a monopoly on naval capability- best, sure, but in the old lore, it was so overwhelming that almost nobody else ever bothered to come out and play. I also have "fond" memories of Winter Court IV, where the Crab were asking for naval support in the Sea of Shadows, and not one Phoenix player was aware we even had a navy worth talking about.

 

Did you play Battle for Rokugan? Crab has the best one for now. I hope they will do something about it. But for sure Phoenix, and all the clan on the cost should have a good naval capability!

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4 hours ago, Victarion13 said:

Did you play Battle for Rokugan? Crab has the best one for now. I hope they will do something about it. But for sure Phoenix, and all the clan on the cost should have a good naval capability!

Not even sure what that is...

 

But yeah, it drove me nuts in the AEG days because the Mantis playerbase always jumped on any chance to maintain their supremacy at sea with both feet... which of course meant everyone else had less and less reason to even look at the ocean.

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Posted (edited)

Too bad Oni haven't learned to swim yet.  The last time Daddy Leng got a Scorpion advisor to give his children swimming lessons, it didn't go so well.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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22 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Foreign stuff is already more-present, which I generally approve of- hopefully they keep it to its current level, rather than increasing it unduly. Having meaningful foreign contact gives the Unicorn something to do, and heaven knows, they needed it in the old lore.

In a possibly accidental bit of brilliance, reflecting the lcg, the rpg rules for a spyglass are in the Crab focussed book

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1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

In a possibly accidental bit of brilliance, reflecting the lcg, the rpg rules for a spyglass are in the Crab focussed book

The Crab also have shield/weapon concepts they picked up from "foreign mercenaries."

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It bugged the heck out of me in the old lore that the Crab did not pick up new things like mad. The had little respect for social strictures, two highly inquisitive/creative families and were in a near constant fight for survival.

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Posted (edited)

Guns, lot of guns...joking, yet introduction of gunpowder could be an empire shattering event in itself. 

Something more mundane than constant epics against world breaking events. Every two season.

I hope they'll build up slowly to the day of thunder then stop.

Then reboot it again :)

 

 

Edited by Nitenman

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On 4/5/2019 at 9:51 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

But yeah, it drove me nuts in the AEG days because the Mantis playerbase always jumped on any chance to maintain their supremacy at sea with both feet... which of course meant everyone else had less and less reason to even look at the ocean.

We tried other things to diversify our identity (with almost no help from the Story Team), but the other Clans screamed 'Pirates!', 'Borg!', and were the typical poster children for anti-courtesy we expect from the 'great' Clans.

 

I'd like to see more stories showing off the different sides of the Mantis and their Allies.  It would be really nice for the 'Yoritomo overrunning everything' meme to die.

 

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3 hours ago, Coyote Walks said:

 It would be really nice for the 'Yoritomo overrunning everything' meme to die.

So we kill Yoritomo before the Grand Assimilation can begin! :D

 

(To those not in the know, the worst Borgyness went down well after Yoritomo's death)

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On 4/7/2019 at 2:18 PM, HirumaShigure said:

I guess I would like the Crab to not enlist the aid of the Shadowlands. But if they do, not so overtly where it makes Kisada look like a total idiot. Let Yori do his thing if you must, but leave the majority of the clan out of it. 

Yeah, really spits in the face of the purpose of the Clan. That would be like if the Crane Clan had some great artistry purge and decided to go full ascetic. 

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I think the thread already hit on my two big things.  I'd like the mantis to not swallow tons of minor clans this time around.  I think it's more interesting for the story and the RPG if those clans maintain their own identity.  Also I'd like the Crab/Shadowlands alliance to be reconciled with our current understanding of the Crab clan and in particular Kisada.  In the original story that all worked if you wanted Kisada to be a cartoon villain and the Crab clan to be primarily an antagonist.  There's clearly a way for taint to infiltrate the Crab clan and Kisada to be an antagonist to the empire and not destroy the identity of the clan in the process.

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4 hours ago, phillos said:

There's clearly a way for taint to infiltrate the Crab clan and Kisada to be an antagonist to the empire and not destroy the identity of the clan in the process.

Sort of where I am with Phoenix and Maho. I hate it as a plot element, but Tadaka is clearly traipsing down the path. Fortunately, the Phoenix Clan's identity is getting a bit more coverage before that actually hits- hopefully in this go-around, the Phoenix won't be, as Fred Wan lamented in an interview, seen as "Bloodspeakers with better PR." (I think Fred was wrong, by the by- Bloodspeakers had better PR than the Phoenix often managed in the old lore ;) )

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5 hours ago, phillos said:

I think the thread already hit on my two big things.  I'd like the mantis to not swallow tons of minor clans this time around.  I think it's more interesting for the story and the RPG if those clans maintain their own identity.  Also I'd like the Crab/Shadowlands alliance to be reconciled with our current understanding of the Crab clan and in particular Kisada.  In the original story that all worked if you wanted Kisada to be a cartoon villain and the Crab clan to be primarily an antagonist.  There's clearly a way for taint to infiltrate the Crab clan and Kisada to be an antagonist to the empire and not destroy the identity of the clan in the process.

In fairness in the old game at launch the Crab/Shadowlands alliance was just a fact of life and was played up as the Crab having grown tired of seeing the clans bicker among themselves while ignoring the real threat to the south having said enough was enough and that they would use every tool at their disposal (including tainted troops) to beat the rest of the clans into submission and unite the empire under one banner to finally organize an effort to beat Fu Leng back to Jigoku where he belonged. 

The origianl flavor for the Crab deck set it out "For Generations the Crab have held back the horrors of the Shadowlands, but times have changed. Now they have embraced that which they have fought against for so long, turning their mastery of warfare against the Empire they swore to protect.

“You are always blind to your truest enemy, for he is behind your eyes.”

They were in a redemption arc from the start and as the war progressed they fell further and further from their intention until they hit a do or die point and had to turn back from the edge. 

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 1:24 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:

If we have Thunders, I want different Thunders. Just to shake things up a bit.

I know it's a long shot, but I sort of want to see FFG go with my totally unfounded idea that the Thunders this time will be the characters on the covers of the Clan Packs, just to see how they'll manage it with turning Aramoro, Chagatai and Uji into the heroes of the story, and Aramoro into a semi-decent human being while they're at it.

More seriously, if the Mantis manage to become a Great Clan, I would really like to see the internal conflicts and strife be made more prominent; the Crane, Unicorn or Lion might seem monolithic, but that's because those families have been together for centuries, so cultural assimilation makes a bit of sense - if the Mantis became a Great Clan along with the Wasp, Sparrow and whoever else migt hypothetically join, I'd expect there to be a lot of cultural tensions. The Mantis absorbing the others I could  somewhat understand, just not at the pace it happened.

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