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The Last Stone Played - HERE BE SPOILERS!

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3 hours ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

Honestly I'm happy to not speculate on what might happen and just enjoy the ride... so much volatility in the plot right now it feels like just about anything can happen, and it's great. 

My one request is that Kaede gets a moment to make crystal clear to Aramoro why you don't f--k with a pregnant woman's family. 

Kaede walks into her husbands room, sees Aramoro leaping towards the rising Toturi, Kaede blinks-

Kaede and Toturi look at the empty room, wondering where the assassin went, before rushing into each others arms and hugging.

Meanwhile, Aramoro faceplants into the saltwater shallows of Thunder Dragon Bay in the Islands of Silk and Spice, and must spend the next several days trying to find a ship back to the mainland.

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6 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

 I actually can't remember a single case in the new story where Toturi stood up for himself. 

This very story references when Toturi put Sotorii in his place ...

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2 hours ago, Mangod said:

Kaede walks into her husbands room, sees Aramoro leaping towards the rising Toturi, Kaede blinks-

Kaede and Toturi look at the empty room, wondering where the assassin went, before rushing into each others arms and hugging.

Meanwhile, Aramoro faceplants into the saltwater shallows of Thunder Dragon Bay in the Islands of Silk and Spice, and must spend the next several days trying to find a ship back to the mainland.

Considering how Void powers were in the old canon, where you had them either extra-subtle or extra-brutal with no middle ground, I doubt that Aramoro would get away with a simple teleportation accident if Kaede decides to do some Void stuff with him. 

1 hour ago, Manchu said:

This very story references when Toturi put Sotorii in his place ...

I think there Sotorii referenced his brief encounter with Toturi in Tiger Stalks His Prey,  where things went awry specifically because Toturi was avoiding confrontation with the prince. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

I'm pretty sure that not speaking up (or at least not achieving a whole lot with it) is Toturi's shtick now. This happened with Arasou, Tsuko, Kaede, Sotorii, the Emps, so I think he would do it now too. I actually can't remember a single case in the new story where Toturi stood up for himself. 

Didn't he sound the Lion retreat and kind of pull Tsuko back at Toshi Ronbo? Don't get me wrong--he's been TOO introspective in this story, but he has done some things not to folks' liking that would be considered standing up for himself (like putting Yojiro in charge too).

Edited by NeoSamurai

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10 hours ago, Manchu said:

I strongly disgaree. Sotorii took a scandalous cheap shot at his own father (foreshadowing!) and Toturi verbally smacked him in his dumb spoiled face in front of everyone. Sotorii specifically thinks back on this with resentment.

This. As I said, I'm pretty sure he added himself to Sotorii's "List Of People Out To Get Me" at this point, well  before the Edict. 

On 4/14/2019 at 6:19 AM, Doji Hyōkin said:

And that’s where it all comes down to Shoju.

Agreed. He might knuckle under but sabotage it, or speak out, or else try and kill sotorii too and make out like the whole thing was actually a scorpion coup....there are several options and we'll have to wait till he and Kachiko speak to figure out which one he's going for. 

 

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You know this story has got me thinking about Shoju.  Who does Shoju confide in?  Clearly not his wife.  Maybe Yojiro now after the novella, but he also sent Yojiro away on assignment.  Does he confide in anyone else?  Was it only Jodan?  If so this is a pretty sad moment for Shoju, and I wonder if his response will be emotionally fueled.

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19 hours ago, Manchu said:

I strongly disgaree. Sotorii took a scandalous cheap shot at his own father (foreshadowing!) and Toturi verbally smacked him in his dumb spoiled face in front of everyone. Sotorii specifically thinks back on this with resentment.

Toturi didn't say anything particularly harsh, it just came off pretty badly because Sotorii of all people was on the receiving end. Toturi even kinda-sorta regrets it immediately after Sotorii leaves:

Quote

Toturi straightened. I should not anger the crown prince, especially amid everything else going on. He was, after all, heir to the throne. But the boy wasn’t Emperor yet. And his station, worthy of respect or not, certainly didn’t entitle him to speak poorly of the man who not only was Emperor, but was also his father—

 I think at this point Toturi going against Sotorii would be uncharacteristic unless something really big happens between him and Aramoro. 

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4 hours ago, phillos said:

You know this story has got me thinking about Shoju.  Who does Shoju confide in?  Clearly not his wife.  Maybe Yojiro now after the novella, but he also sent Yojiro away on assignment.  Does he confide in anyone else?  Was it only Jodan?  If so this is a pretty sad moment for Shoju, and I wonder if his response will be emotionally fueled.

Such is the fate of being the Scorpion Clan Champion....

 

I agree that it's very sad that Shoju's only confident and friend is now gone.

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42 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

Um I'm confused. Does... does Aramoro trying to murderize Toturi (and probably Kaede if she's a witness) not count as something big happening between them??

No if we get something mildly murderous like Aramoro employing a certain geisha to poison Toturi. Also, this is Rokugan. People trying to murderize each other over whatever they feel like is supposed to be a fairly common and almost expected occurrence. 

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3 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

No if we get something mildly murderous like Aramoro employing a certain geisha to poison Toturi. Also, this is Rokugan. People trying to murderize each other over whatever they feel like is supposed to be a fairly common and almost expected occurrence. 

In honorable duels or on the battlefield, sure. Assassination attempts, especially against the Emerald Champion, are a different matter.

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9 hours ago, Kinzen said:

In honorable duels or on the battlefield, sure. Assassination attempts, especially against the Emerald Champion, are a different matter.

you mean like Doji Satsume and Agasha Sumiko?

The Emerald Champion is the primary magistrate of Rokugan. If someone isn't trying to murder them, they're not doing their job properly...

....However, this is normally criminals and cultists. It's not, usually, representatives of a great clan's ruling hierarchy. 

 

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

you mean like Doji Satsume and Agasha Sumiko?

The Emerald Champion is the primary magistrate of Rokugan. If someone isn't trying to murder them, they're not doing their job properly...

....However, this is normally criminals and cultists. It's not, usually, representatives of a great clan's ruling hierarchy.

 

I dunno; it might be that more often than you think. 🙂

But regardless, Aramoro trying to murder Toturi would not be the kind of thing Toturi is likely to shrug off as normal Rokugani behavior and nothing to get worked up about.

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18 hours ago, Kinzen said:

In honorable duels or on the battlefield, sure. Assassination attempts, especially against the Emerald Champion, are a different matter.

At this point we don't know how Aramoro will approach this. He might just show up at Toturi's place, openly call him a weak-willed clown and "reveal" that he let him win the Emerald Championship pout of sheer pity, then challenge Toturi to a duel/re-match. Possibly after Toturi drank his spiked tea, but that's detail for another time. Heck, Aramoro can strike by proxy (the geisha scenario I mentioned), cover up his attack in any way he desires, etc. He is a Scorpion shinobi, after all. He is not compelled to explain his EVIL PLAN to Toturi before attacking him. 

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Actually article 7, sub-section b, paragraph 4 of the Rokugan Villan's Handbook states:

All "evil plans" must be prematurely revealed to a party that is directly targeted or impacted by the "evil plan" if the party is actively involved in a life of death situation as a result of the "evil plan."

 

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2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Actually article 7, sub-section b, paragraph 4 of the Rokugan Villan's Handbook states:

All "evil plans" must be prematurely revealed to a party that is directly targeted or impacted by the "evil plan" if the party is actively involved in a life of death situation as a result of the "evil plan."

 

Because the only rewarding evil is Lawful Evil.

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6 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

At this point we don't know how Aramoro will approach this. He might just show up at Toturi's place, openly call him a weak-willed clown and "reveal" that he let him win the Emerald Championship pout of sheer pity, then challenge Toturi to a duel/re-match. Possibly after Toturi drank his spiked tea, but that's detail for another time. Heck, Aramoro can strike by proxy (the geisha scenario I mentioned), cover up his attack in any way he desires, etc. He is a Scorpion shinobi, after all. He is not compelled to explain his EVIL PLAN to Toturi before attacking him. 

Yes, if Aramoro chooses to honorably confront Toturi then it wouldn't be unusual within Rokugani society. But that's pretty much the only scenario where the confrontation isn't "something big." Even if it's an indirect strike, e.g. poison, Toturi is unlikely to shrug and say "welp, I survived, so I guess it doesn't matter who was behind this." An indirect strike probably just means you get an investigation plotline before the whole thing blows up.

And let's not forget, this entire branch of the discussion started with you saying Toturi never stands up for himself and therefore probably won't go against Sotorii unless "something big" happens with Aramoro. Given that Toturi knows about the Emperor's edict, the notion that it will require a blatant assassination attempt before Toturi does anything to oppose Sotorii seems weak at best. Even if he doesn't stand up for himself, standing up for the Empire is an entirely different matter. That's literally why Kachiko's sending Aramoro after him in the first place.

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16 hours ago, Kinzen said:

Given that Toturi knows about the Emperor's edict, the notion that it will require a blatant assassination attempt before Toturi does anything to oppose Sotorii seems weak at best. 

I'm not saying that he won't oppose Sotorii, only that unless something big happens he won't go This-Makes-You-A-Ronin Option or anything like that. He probably won't even reveal his part of the edict until he makes sure that he will hit home with it (like how he didn't go for the gates at Toshi Ranbo). I think this would be just uncharacteristic from him after pretty much everything he did in similar high-pressure situations. 

Heck, he might not even connect Sotorii and Aramoro until it is too late. As far as Toturi knows, the Scorpion is on his side and Aramoro has personal reasons to go after him. Unless Aramoro spills the beans that I can actually see happening. 

12 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Toturi stands up for himself just fine.

It is fine, he is not really a pushover, but he is not the "Scorpion Guy Supposedly On My Side Attacks Me, The Emperor Is Killed Under Mysterious Circumstances, There Are Some Kind Of Succession-Related Scheme Going On, So There Is No Time Like Succession War Time!" kind of guy either. Like Arasou said in the opening Lion fic: Toturi is the quiet and thoughtful type, and not a man of explosive action. 

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Well it's reasonable for Toturi to think that Shoju knows he was going to become Regent so it doesn't make sense for him to have the Emperor killed, especially before the Edict was announced and with the wrong heir going on the throne.

But the idea that he wouldn't find it suspicious that a high ranking Scorpion tried to kill him the same night the Emperor suddenly died is ridiculous. He's going to take action, though I could see him suspecting a rogue Scorpion faction and discretely marshaling his forces rather than making a dramatic pronouncement in front of open court.

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I think the pressure of time is a serious factor here and we may see some mistakes and it decisions that are out of character for many of the main people involved in this.

Ultimately I don't think Aramoro will get to make an assassination attempt on Toturi.  I think Shoju will discover Kachiko's plan and get to Toturi first.  Aramoro will overhear Shoju and Toturi banding together to do the right thing which leaves Kachiko in hot water.  Aramoro won't stand for that and he kills Shoju and frames Toturi for it.  Toturi will want to stay and have the truth come out but he'll either be kidnapped or convinced that he cannot stay (likely to protect Daisetsu) and his sudden disappearance will solidify the false charges against him.

Scorpion alters the edict to read that Toturi was to be regent and gets it confirmed as a fake while present I g their own fake edict that passes as real which claims that Shoju will be regent to Sotorii.

Everyone will get so caught up in what appears to be a power grab by Toturi that the investigation into Jodan's death is not given the attention it deserves. 

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13 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Everyone will get so caught up in what appears to be a power grab by Toturi that the investigation into Jodan's death is not given the attention it deserves. 

What investigation the only people likely to press the issue aside from Toturi are Satoshi (who we can see is already handled) and Shouju (who will be dealt with in one way or another shortly)

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