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Mandelore of the Rings

Suggestions/proposals for Community voted Boba Fett Fix

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Posted (edited)

I'll throw my hat in the ring:

boba_skirmish_fix2.png.85bda1bf5e3abde4d75ce2695a90e2d6.png

 

 

I thought I'd better add an explanation of this card.  There was a lot to correct.  So Fett gains Vehicle, something that is much needed.  He loses Battle Presence which is replaced by Flamethrower.  I think this is thematically better.  Since the flamethrower causes damage and weaken, I figured it was good to get rid of those two items and replace them with surge for 2 damage, and surge for 2 recovery.  This brings him more in line with other damage dealers.  Then I replaced Battle Discipline with something that was cribbed from other characters, and something that happened in the App with Jet Troopers.  Whenever B man exits his space, he can singe the eyebrows off one adjacent hostile and cause them damage and strain.  I think this more than makes up for the loss of pierce.  He no longer has 2 accuracy as part of Battle Discipline, but he is a 3 dice character, and his new damage efforts are based around closer in attacks, so I thought it was an acceptable loss.  Fett retains his fixed Block and Evade, as well as Mobile. 

Edit 4/11/2019:  I've modified the card the wording on Battle Discipline.  I still think flamethrower fits Boba.  Not because he ever used it in the films, but it has become associated with him, and Shayla already has the rope.  I had considered making Pierce 1, Pierce 2 as well.  I think it would better fit a 10 point character.  

 

Edited by Rikalonius

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That is really cool.

Out of curiosity, generic skirmish upgrade so he can still have it if the Empire hires him (or Saska I guess)? I kinda dig that idea (and a Vader/Fett doesn't seem nearly as mechanically terrifying as, say, IG with fix and Vader). 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Weatherwax2099 said:

That is really cool.

Out of curiosity, generic skirmish upgrade so he can still have it if the Empire hires him (or Saska I guess)? I kinda dig that idea (and a Vader/Fett doesn't seem nearly as mechanically terrifying as, say, IG with fix and Vader). 

Giving him vehicle allows for a wider variety of command cards.  Terro's Flamethrower was a better option for him than Battle Presence anyway.  I thought about the Trando "Relentless" ability, but I remember playing the app, and I remember the app modifying the Jet Troopers, sometimes, so that they caused damage and strain as they past over a hero.  I thought, rather than having this applied when someone else leaves an adjacent space to him, that it would work better mechanically and thematically for it to be applied when he exited the space.  EDIT: I just realized something.  I had accidently given him the generic skirmish upgrade, so I updated the art to make it Mercenary.  Maybe it would be better as a Generic, because, as you say, then the Empire can hire him.  

Edited by Rikalonius

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Just now, Majushi said:

To throw my 2 cents into the Boba Attachment Fix, I'd suggest not making it generic but Scum only.

There is a very good reason for why the fixes are faction locked.

What reason is that?  I'm not saying I disagree, but there's never been any official reason stated.  As Weather said, if you use a Mercenary faction setting, then he is trapped only in hunter lists.  This seems very anti-thematic for Boba Fett, where it makes perfect sense for Han and Chewbacca.  I know it was done with IG-88, but that doesn't mean it has to be.  

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7 minutes ago, Majushi said:

I'd suggest not making it generic

Oh, I'd rather have it be generic, then I could recreate that great cartoon from the Christmas Special, where, for a while Boba Fett and Luke were working together!  All we would need is some kind of Tuning Fork Blaster and a giant slug for him to ride around on.  But I suppose the downside is next World's we'd just have 52% of the lists being Luke, Tuning Fork Fett and Slug lists and that would be a little monotonous.

But seriously, it would be thematic for him to go to whatever faction "paid him".  Be fun to see him popping up a lot.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Oh, I'd rather have it be generic, then I could recreate that great cartoon from the Christmas Special, where, for a while Boba Fett and Luke were working together!  All we would need is some kind of Tuning Fork Blaster and a giant slug for him to ride around on.  But I suppose the downside is next World's we'd just have 52% of the lists being Luke, Tuning Fork Fett and Slug lists and that would be a little monotonous.

But seriously, it would be thematic for him to go to whatever faction "paid him".  Be fun to see him popping up a lot.

[action] [action] Tuning Fork Lance: Choose a CREATURE figure within 3 space and roll 1 yellow die.  That figure suffers [damage] equal to the [damage] results.  That figure now interrupts to perform a melee attack using a RED and GREEN die.  After the attack is resolved, exhaust the CREATURE figure's card and that figure becomes weakened. Only usable once per round. 

Edited by Rikalonius

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4 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

I'll throw my hat in the ring:

 

boba_skirmish_fix.png.ef9925418622889b4e3428bad007f0d6.png

Nitpicky feedback (though ignoring minor typos):

Pretty sure all other skirmish fixes specify the subname, i.e. Boba Fett (Infamous Bounty Hunter). Certainly if a new version of Boba were to appear, this card shouldn't apply to it. Faction has already been mentioned; it should also be unique.

With "Back Blast" as written, if Boba manages to start an activation adjacent to an enemy figure, he can inflict 12 damage and 12 strain on that figure just by moving around it (or the same total shared among many different figures, or a bit less if he has to move to get there). That seems... excessive. Even by adding a limit of once per activation, or once per hostile figure per activation, or something, it's an enormous amount of guaranteed damage without ever even needing to attack. Personally, I feel that his jetpack is well represented by Speed 6 and Mobile (and now Vehicle) and doesn't need more. Now he's got a Flamethrower too, which is good (if questionable whether his wrist-mounted torch should be equivalent to a full-sized flamethrower). I'd look at representing his rocket or rope ahead of more about the jetpack - or, perhaps even better, a catch-all ability that represents the various different tools and equipment he's loaded out with, some of which we may never see in the films. (This is probably what "Battle Presence" was trying to do but we all know it's useless).

I understand the thinking behind mixing up his surge abilities but I'm not sure it's necessary to remove Pierce 1 and Weaken, both are fairly ordinary but they do no harm. In fact he now only has two surge abilities so on a lucky roll he'll have surges he can't use.

Making the surges from "Battle Discipline" unconditional is an obvious and sensible upgrade; but we should remember his Command card, Mandalorian Tactics, which would now be technically broken (albeit that it has other effects which would still apply). I suggest that for consistency and to minimise changes - to protect against possible side effects, and maximise the chance of whatever change we end up with being widely accepted - it would be better not to need an additional FAQ for (or replacement of) that card, if possible.

Finally, FFG almost never have so many abilities on a card that they have to squeeze the font to make it fit (and they sometimes come up with very elegant wording to make that possible) - it's tricky with so little space available and so much that needs to be said, but we should strive to meet the challenge!

Notwithstanding the above critique, it's not a million miles away from what I was thinking... :)

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1 hour ago, Bitterman said:

Notwithstanding the above critique, it's not a million miles away from what I was thinking

Yeah, I reckon this is a pretty good one too.  I agree about the back blast.  Bit excessive unless you limited it somehow.  Maybe think about stuff we already have like Shyla's Mandalorian whip and Sabine's Parting Gift.  Both would thematically fit and both have been tested with other figures...  Also maybe make one or both of them be free (not an action) like Parting gift is.  

SO, in summary:

Maybe what you have but switch Back Blast for Mandalorian Whip or whatever it's called and either make Flamethrower free (not an action) or give him Parting Gift.

Just ideas.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

I'll throw my hat in the ring:

 

boba_skirmish_fix.png.ef9925418622889b4e3428bad007f0d6.png

 

I thought I'd better add an explanation of this card.  There was a lot to correct.  So Fett gains Vehicle, something that is much needed.  He loses Battle Presence which is replaced by Flamethrower.  I think this is thematically better.  Since the flamethrower causes damage and weaken, I figured it was good to get rid of those two items and replace them with surge for 2 damage, and surge for 2 recovery.  This brings him more in line with other damage dealers.  Then I replaced Battle Discipline with something that was cribbed from other characters, and something that happened in the App with Jet Troopers.  Whenever B man exits his space, he can singe the eyebrows off one adjacent hostile and cause them damage and strain.  I think this more than makes up for the loss of pierce.  He no longer has 2 accuracy as part of Battle Discipline, but he is a 3 dice character, and his new damage efforts are based around closer in attacks, so I thought it was an acceptable loss.  Fett retains his fixed Block and Evade, as well as Mobile. 

 

I love this, but want to suggest adding professional so he also gets a reroll.

Edit: or switch out that yellow die for a red one.  As currently configured I see a lot of low rolls and over surging in Boba's future.

Edited by Jaric256

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8 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

What reason is that?  I'm not saying I disagree, but there's never been any official reason stated.  As Weather said, if you use a Mercenary faction setting, then he is trapped only in hunter lists.  This seems very anti-thematic for Boba Fett, where it makes perfect sense for Han and Chewbacca.  I know it was done with IG-88, but that doesn't mean it has to be.  

Outside of avoiding a small set of potential balance issues, there doesn't seem to be any reason for the fixes to be faction specific. If it's to discourage using the crossover cards for high tier figures then you still have the problem of all the figures that are strong without a fix. If it's supposed to be some kind of thematic thing then it makes even less sense as I don't see any reason why Han would be weaker or holding back or something just because he's working for Scum and certainly IG-88 wouldn't care if he was killing for Jabba or Vader. Plus, again, you still have the pure-hearted farm boy Jedi and dedicated Rebel soldiers that will apparently give it their all for a good payday.

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4 hours ago, Bitterman said:

Nitpicky feedback (though ignoring minor typos):

Pretty sure all other skirmish fixes specify the subname, i.e. Boba Fett (Infamous Bounty Hunter). Certainly if a new version of Boba were to appear, this card shouldn't apply to it. Faction has already been mentioned; it should also be unique.

With "Back Blast" as written, if Boba manages to start an activation adjacent to an enemy figure, he can inflict 12 damage and 12 strain on that figure just by moving around it (or the same total shared among many different figures, or a bit less if he has to move to get there). That seems... excessive. Even by adding a limit of once per activation, or once per hostile figure per activation, or something, it's an enormous amount of guaranteed damage without ever even needing to attack. Personally, I feel that his jetpack is well represented by Speed 6 and Mobile (and now Vehicle) and doesn't need more. Now he's got a Flamethrower too, which is good (if questionable whether his wrist-mounted torch should be equivalent to a full-sized flamethrower). I'd look at representing his rocket or rope ahead of more about the jetpack - or, perhaps even better, a catch-all ability that represents the various different tools and equipment he's loaded out with, some of which we may never see in the films. (This is probably what "Battle Presence" was trying to do but we all know it's useless).

I understand the thinking behind mixing up his surge abilities but I'm not sure it's necessary to remove Pierce 1 and Weaken, both are fairly ordinary but they do no harm. In fact he now only has two surge abilities so on a lucky roll he'll have surges he can't use.

Making the surges from "Battle Discipline" unconditional is an obvious and sensible upgrade; but we should remember his Command card, Mandalorian Tactics, which would now be technically broken (albeit that it has other effects which would still apply). I suggest that for consistency and to minimise changes - to protect against possible side effects, and maximise the chance of whatever change we end up with being widely accepted - it would be better not to need an additional FAQ for (or replacement of) that card, if possible.

Finally, FFG almost never have so many abilities on a card that they have to squeeze the font to make it fit (and they sometimes come up with very elegant wording to make that possible) - it's tricky with so little space available and so much that needs to be said, but we should strive to meet the challenge!

Notwithstanding the above critique, it's not a million miles away from what I was thinking... :)

Good critique. I tried to put Boba Fett (Infamous Bounty Hunter) but in the correct font in went past 1 line.  So for prototyping sake, I left it as Boba Fett only.  

Back Blast was meant to be a once per activation thing.  I see my error in wording.  I can see your point on his jetpack already being represented, however as far as speed 6 goes, which I think is fair, Captain Terro can move a max 13 per turn on his elephant sized lizard, while Fett can move a maximum of 12... in his jetpack.  I disagree on the flamethrower however.  

I considered Mandalorian Tactics, but I figured there were a lot of cards that were broken and never used.  I figured giving him Vehicle would make up for some of that.  Still, I do see the issue with Back Blast and wouldn't be against keeping Battle Discipline, but then if we give him 2 ACC every turn, and then allow him to have access to damage and recover each turn, which I'm fine with; it doesn't break Mandalorian tactics, but it makes some of it redundant. 

Since I'm for keeping Flame Thrower, I'm also for removing weaken.  We can save Pierce 1, and possibly make it Pierce 2.  On a regular roll he has a 57% of 2 surges, and a 19% chance of 3 surges.  So with weaken removed, it leaves him with 3 surge abilities, and the rare 3% chance he rolls 4 surges.  

3 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Yeah, I reckon this is a pretty good one too.  I agree about the back blast.  Bit excessive unless you limited it somehow.  Maybe think about stuff we already have like Shyla's Mandalorian whip and Sabine's Parting Gift.  Both would thematically fit and both have been tested with other figures...  Also maybe make one or both of them be free (not an action) like Parting gift is.  

SO, in summary:

Maybe what you have but switch Back Blast for Mandalorian Whip or whatever it's called and either make Flamethrower free (not an action) or give him Parting Gift.

Just ideas.

I know I took flame thrower from Captain Terro, but there have been many, many games that feature Fett with a Flame Thrower.  Personally, I'd be against using Parting Gift or Mandalorian Whip.

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21 minutes ago, Weatherwax2099 said:

Outside of avoiding a small set of potential balance issues, there doesn't seem to be any reason for the fixes to be faction specific. If it's to discourage using the crossover cards for high tier figures then you still have the problem of all the figures that are strong without a fix. If it's supposed to be some kind of thematic thing then it makes even less sense as I don't see any reason why Han would be weaker or holding back or something just because he's working for Scum and certainly IG-88 wouldn't care if he was killing for Jabba or Vader. Plus, again, you still have the pure-hearted farm boy Jedi and dedicated Rebel soldiers that will apparently give it their all for a good payday.

The only thing I'll say in disagreement is that I look at Han as post-SW and therefore fully vested in the Rebel cause.  So I support his upgrade being faction specific, but not Boba.

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On 4/4/2019 at 4:51 AM, Rikalonius said:

I'll throw my hat in the ring:

 

boba_skirmish_fix.png.ef9925418622889b4e3428bad007f0d6.png

 

I thought I'd better add an explanation of this card.  There was a lot to correct.  So Fett gains Vehicle, something that is much needed.  He loses Battle Presence which is replaced by Flamethrower.  I think this is thematically better.  Since the flamethrower causes damage and weaken, I figured it was good to get rid of those two items and replace them with surge for 2 damage, and surge for 2 recovery.  This brings him more in line with other damage dealers.  Then I replaced Battle Discipline with something that was cribbed from other characters, and something that happened in the App with Jet Troopers.  Whenever B man exits his space, he can singe the eyebrows off one adjacent hostile and cause them damage and strain.  I think this more than makes up for the loss of pierce.  He no longer has 2 accuracy as part of Battle Discipline, but he is a 3 dice character, and his new damage efforts are based around closer in attacks, so I thought it was an acceptable loss.  Fett retains his fixed Block and Evade, as well as Mobile. 

 

Back Blast needs "limit once per figure per round" otherwise you can deal 12 damage an 12 strains moving twice in an activation and spending all your MPs running around an adjacent figure...

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Posted (edited)

Think about new players (I think we always need them)
I remember that as a new player (not so long ago) it was very difficult for me to remember what my oponnent's Vader can and can't.
Same with Han and Chewie. It is a disaster for new players (like they don't have a ton of things to remember).
Why not just lower the cost and add a simple abillity like focus on every attack or additional attack at the end of the round??
It sould be new players friendly attachment.

Edited by Delusionist

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Posted (edited)

As someone said before, all of us have our own thoughts about Boba. "Back Blast" sounds better if its limited once per round.

Either way, here is my take on Boba:

Down to 12 deployments points. Battle Discipline is seamlessly distributed among the existing surges. His attack pool doesn't change so he cannot deal too much more damage. To compensate that fact and put him into the same league as Vader or IG-88, the "Wrist Rocket" ability follows the pattern of Sabine's "parting gift" but with a red die. And of course, he has to be Professional to reroll one die.

It could be Vehicle as well, something to discuss.

305382616_BobaFett.thumb.jpg.dbf4eb968008676f68630194ea12dd7e.jpg

 

P.S. The design follows the same pattern than some cards I brought to the Worlds recently ;) Hope you like it.

Edited by bokepasa

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4 hours ago, bokepasa said:

As someone said before, all of us have our own thoughts about Boba. "Back Blast" sounds better if its limited once per round.

Either way, here is my take on Boba:

Down to 12 deployments points. Battle Discipline is seamlessly distributed among the existing surges. His attack pool doesn't change so he cannot deal too much more damage. To compensate that fact and put him into the same league as Vader or IG-88, the "Wrist Rocket" ability follows the pattern of Sabine's "parting gift" but with a red die. And of course, he has to be Professional to reroll one die.

It could be Vehicle as well, something to discuss.

 

 

P.S. The design follows the same pattern than some cards I brought to the Worlds recently ;) Hope you like it.

Given that Jet Troopers and Sabine are vehicle, I think that is a must for him.  The issue I can see is the same issue that was presented to me, what to do about Mandalorian Tactics?  Yes, Back Blast was always meant to be once per round, that was my fault on wording.  I want to modify the card again, I'm just considering how to alter it and keep Battle Discipline. 

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9 hours ago, bokepasa said:

 

305382616_BobaFett.thumb.jpg.dbf4eb968008676f68630194ea12dd7e.jpg

Firstly, the art is awesome. 

I just trialed another fix from the forum that had Boba Fett get an extra attack, and I still felt like he wasn't OP. 

I like that you got rid of battle discipline. It doesn't make sense that he must choose there and then. I like how your card has them all. 

I will trial this version of Boba and see how he does. My gut feeling is that this is going to make him at par for the cost. 

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1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Firstly, the art is awesome. 

The artwork is not mine. All credit to the artists Lucasfilm and FFG use for their cards and illustrations. I just put together the picture and text by using a Photoshop template I customized to design promo-like cards.

 

1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I like that you got rid of battle discipline. It doesn't make sense that he must choose there and then. I like how your card has them all. 

I followed the structure Vinto's surges have, they add more than one thing. IMHO the +2 Accuracy is a no-brainer, it should go for free. Battle Discipline made no sense at all from the very beginning, let alone in the current meta. The only problem is his command card, "Mandalorian Tactics", becomes useless though. as @Rikalonius pointed out above.

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13 hours ago, bokepasa said:

As someone said before, all of us have our own thoughts about Boba. "Back Blast" sounds better if its limited once per round.

Either way, here is my take on Boba:

Down to 12 deployments points. Battle Discipline is seamlessly distributed among the existing surges. His attack pool doesn't change so he cannot deal too much more damage. To compensate that fact and put him into the same league as Vader or IG-88, the "Wrist Rocket" ability follows the pattern of Sabine's "parting gift" but with a red die. And of course, he has to be Professional to reroll one die.

It could be Vehicle as well, something to discuss.

305382616_BobaFett.thumb.jpg.dbf4eb968008676f68630194ea12dd7e.jpg

 

P.S. The design follows the same pattern than some cards I brought to the Worlds recently ;) Hope you like it.

I think this is my favourite thus far.  Would only echo the addition of the vehicle trait for consistency

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Posted (edited)

I was just considering Boba.  Now, this wouldn't totally fix him, but how about this for Battle Discipline.  Rather than choosing the ability when you declare, you choose after the dice is rolled, based on need.  In that way, Mandalorian Tactics wouldn't be affected, but it would make Battle Discipline a little more useful.  The cost would still need to come down.  Ok, I went ahead and modified the card. 

boba_skirmish_fix2.png.85bda1bf5e3abde4d75ce2695a90e2d6.png

Edited by Rikalonius

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6 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

I was just considering Boba.  Now, this wouldn't totally fix him, but how about this for Battle Discipline.  Rather than choosing the ability when you declare, you choose after the dice is rolled, based on need.  In that way, Mandalorian Tactics wouldn't be affected, but it would make Battle Discipline a little more useful.  The cost would still need to come down.  Ok, I went ahead and modified the card. 

boba_skirmish_fix2.png.85bda1bf5e3abde4d75ce2695a90e2d6.png

So with the new BD, do you gain a plus two damage surge, or just add two damage?

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