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8 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

This is funny because I like Noldor and Silvan most but I do not mind seeing more Gondor because I feel, despite the number of cards, their archetypes are still far behind the Elves. It hurts then all the more seeing such an underwhelming Gondorian ally as Derufin.

Let's wait for spirit Aragon before the final verdict. I strongly believe his spirit version would have gondor trait and/or synergy. It would make sense for spirit aragorn to be his Elessar/king of men, side.

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And Gondor is not so bad as it is, but since I like to play them almost as much as I do Noldor or Silvan, I see it is inferior against most of the quests (which I play at least), probably all compared to the Noldor discard Lords of the Eldar Narya Erestor monster.

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3 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

Certainly my own desires affect analysis.  I want to explore all the places that have not been explored.  I want to revisit areas not adequately covered.  I want more heroes.  I want more archtypes.  I want two of the archtypes introduced in the current cycle (woodmen and Beornings) to get more support.  I want saga expansions that explore times *outside* the narrow window the current game has been constrained in.  One last cycle clearly isn't going to accomplish all those things.  There's only three things that could force an end to the game IMO:

1) Losing the license

2) Sales not justifying further development

3) Designers not wishing to develop any further (out of ideas or bored).

I don't think #1 is likely in the near future.  #2 is always possible, but given that everything they print sells out quickly seems implausible on its face.  #3 is always possible, but certainly the current cycle gives no hint of an end to their ideas.

It's true that "it has all led to this" could be a hint and not just marketing fluff.  While it could've been said of any release, it hasn't been said, and maybe it's a hint that This Is The End.  But I think it's ironic that in the same thread where the *clear* statement than the two starter set heroes would be released in regular products is questioned as being the product of an ignorant marketing intern with no insight into the future of the game, that a vague bit of marketing fluff would constitute solid evidence.  Who writes these releases?

"Stocks being run down everywhere" doesn't tell me much about the future of the game, because reprints selling out quickly has been the rule for years (and is a sign of *healthy* demand, I think).

Having lots of game has been true for a long time, so also doesn't tell me much about the future of the game.

It's also true that the cover shows Mordor (from the outside) and not Rhun.  It's possible that the cycle will pivot into Mordor, and since Mordor is the biggest, baddest destination in Middle Earth that would be a logical stopping point if you're looking for a stopping point.  But if true, it means that the game never would explore Rhun at all.  We already know where the quests of the deluxe take place, and they're all *west* of Lake Rhun, in territory once held by Gondor in its prime and arguably part of Rhovanion, not Rhun.  As I said, this would be a terrible shame.  The designers were able to tease nine quests out of little bits of Numenor sticking out of the water, but can only spare three quests on the borders of the vastness of Rhun?

The view of Mordor is from the Black Gate.  This is considerably closer to Minas Tirith than to the hills of Rhun, and as Frodo discovered is quite possibly the worst possible way to get into Mordor.  Even if this cycle did end in Mordor, I do not think we would be going that way.  The deluxe ends in a temple to Sauron outside Mordor, but if you want to put a Sauron reference on the cover, what else would you picture besides Barad-Dur/Mount Doom/Black Gate?

Sauron has a history in Rhun and stayed there during the watchful peace of 2063-2460.  It's possible that Sauron revisited his power base there between 2941 (chased out of Dol Goldur) and 2951 (declares himself openly in Mordor).  I think it would be cool if the destination of this cycle is not Mordor, but whatever fortress was used by Sauron in his stay in Rhun and likely is still under his control in the succeeding years.  Sauron's center of power in Rhun, held by him for nearly a thousand years (at least), could be a very interesting and dangerous place.

OK, powerfully argued and perfectly reasonable arguments. Just to say that the stocking situation at least here in the UK is appalling (much worse than the games' great days of 2+ years ago) and I do think overall it is at last being wound down. 

I also thought that the picture of the Morannon was an odd one (if I was in Rhun, I would enter Mordor from the East), but I don't believe that they would have used it if the adventure was solely staying in Rhun (they didn't use a generic Mordor pic with Sands of Harad for example).

Fun to hear your thoughts as ever, and we shall see 🙂

 

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Yeah, I second the request. It is a forced effect, and one can only guess if there is a way to get rid of the contract (willingly or otherwise). If not, the timing on these might be very the most important thing, unless of course you run a very specific deck, in this case, no allies.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Constantine said:

What is the fullest description of the visible text on the contract?

Side B


You cannot play or put into play allies.

Each Character you control gets +1 +1 and +1.

 

Forced : When a character you control leaves play (discard, or return not readable) this card. 

 

 

That means there is a side A. 😊

 

Edited by Valiko33

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2 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

And Gondor is not so bad as it is, but since I like to play them almost as much as I do Noldor or Silvan, I see it is inferior against most of the quests (which I play at least), probably all compared to the Noldor discard Lords of the Eldar Narya Erestor monster.

I back you on this. I too love noldor to the excess...

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8 minutes ago, Valiko33 said:

Side B


You cannot play or put into play allies.

Each Character you control gets +1 +1 and +1.

 

Forced : When a character you control leaves play (discard, or return not readable) this card. 

 

 

That means there is a side A. 😊

 

Quite interesting. I hope article that explores that card comes soon. Thank you.

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Thanks for the contract translation. Seems great, except we do not get the rules yet. I had thought it would be just easy put into play thing but with side a & b, it can be more complicated than that. If it is not too costly though, the bonus on this side b is certainly great for not being able to play allies for a while, espcially as you can easily time it yourself.

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4 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

Thanks for the contract translation. Seems great, except we do not get the rules yet. I had thought it would be just easy put into play thing but with side a & b, it can be more complicated than that. If it is not too costly though, the bonus on this side b is certainly great for not being able to play allies for a while, espcially as you can easily time it yourself.

I don't think it has a cost in a traditional sense you mean. It has no resource cost, and if it's double sided - it doesn't go into the deck. You include it into your deck and it starts the game in play immediately, like a boon permanent from saga.

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No, I did not think so either, I meant more: you have to do something in order to put it into play in the first play (like a requirement), which will be stated on Side A. I hope to see the full card, and have the mechanics explained, soon, because out of all the previewed cards in the box so far, I am most excited about the Contract, and I hope we get one in each pack of the cycle.

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Contrast sounds like beneficial effect similar to player side quest with limitations to make up for the gap of not having to put progress to benefit for their effect. Let's see if contracts are set up cards or set aside cards requiring event card effect to be put in play similarly to player card with Encounter keyword.

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I hope you will not need another card to play it. I am guessing each player will be able to have one Contract per game and play it once some requirement is met, thus turning from Side A to Side B which is the active part.

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32 minutes ago, player3351457 said:

So I was deck building today with Hall of Beorn...

Did anyone else realize that Derufin will be our first spirit ally with ranged?

Yes. Range make him a lot better in spirit for lack of competition. Still 3 blu resources for a unique ally with an ability which seems over coasted and fairly easy to come by in spirit with many better alternatives...

But as i said , let's wait for spirit aragorn (I'm sure he will have a gondor synergy...) before giving a final word on derufin. 

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I hear you but yet cannot see it. I am not expecting Spirit Aragorn either, I would rather see him as an ally once as well. What I really do not understand is that Derufin is not 2 willpower when he is Spirit.

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4 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

I hear you but yet cannot see it. I am not expecting Spirit Aragorn either, I would rather see him as an ally once as well. What I really do not understand is that Derufin is not 2 willpower when he is Spirit.

Because derufin is fills an attacker role not the usual questing role the typical spirit ally cover. And stat/cost ratio he is the best attacking ally in spirit. 3 resources for 2 attack AND range in spirit was unheard until now. All the others 2+ attack ally in spirit cost 3 to 5 resources when paid in their full cost and none has range. Range do increase his value as you would always have target for his action  in 2+ player while with the other attacking spirit allies you sometimes waste their action.

What puzzle me and lower a bit his value in my book his his ability which seems expensive for the effect and so easy to come by in sphere with so many alternatives most of which are better. I can see myself easily put him as a 1x copy in several spirit heavy multiplayer deck to get some attack power but I hardly immagine to use his ability in most games. It seems more a panic button just in case  than an ability you want to use in most game.

For the most I would consider him as an ally with good stat/cost for the sphere  with no ability when deckbuilding.

I rate him as a solid and good option in sphere but -for the moment- one step short of being a great ally. If he just had 1 more point of base attack I would gladly pay 4 resources and be happy.

My comment on the future is that today gondor decks are essentially leadership deck with space for tactic/lore inclusion. If spirit aragorn would have gondor synergy and some few spirit gondor ally arrives we would have the possibility to build leadership/spirit gondor deck where derufin buffed by leadership boromir ability ( plus the usual benefit of leadership resources generation) will become a GREAT  ally choice. But I agree with you: that is the (hypothetical) future. 

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While Derufin doesn't fit into a Gondor deck, Visionary Leadership and LeBoromir are both global buffs, so he fits well into a spirit-using deck in fellowship with a Gondor deck.

Derufin as Gondor makes it highly unlikely that other neglected outlanders will bolster that type.  Outlands could've used a ranged attacker with a useful discard ability.

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I agree Derufin's Response is gravy that will rarely be used, but even if Spirit has a smattering of effects that help other people's threat, almost all of which are pretty good to great in themselves, none of those effects also contribute 2 ranged attack until then.

(It would be quite strong indeed out of Spirit if he costed 2, or had 3 attack. Probably too strong, IMHO.)

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4 hours ago, Halberto said:

Because derufin is fills an attacker role not the usual questing role the typical spirit ally cover. And stat/cost ratio he is the best attacking ally in spirit. 3 resources for 2 attack AND range in spirit was unheard until now. All the others 2+ attack ally in spirit cost 3 to 5 resources when paid in their full cost and none has range. Range do increase his value as you would always have target for his action  in 2+ player while with the other attacking spirit allies you sometimes waste their action.

What puzzle me and lower a bit his value in my book his his ability which seems expensive for the effect and so easy to come by in sphere with so many alternatives most of which are better. I can see myself easily put him as a 1x copy in several spirit heavy multiplayer deck to get some attack power but I hardly immagine to use his ability in most games. It seems more a panic button just in case  than an ability you want to use in most game.

For the most I would consider him as an ally with good stat/cost for the sphere  with no ability when deckbuilding.

I rate him as a solid and good option in sphere but -for the moment- one step short of being a great ally. If he just had 1 more point of base attack I would gladly pay 4 resources and be happy.

My comment on the future is that today gondor decks are essentially leadership deck with space for tactic/lore inclusion. If spirit aragorn would have gondor synergy and some few spirit gondor ally arrives we would have the possibility to build leadership/spirit gondor deck where derufin buffed by leadership boromir ability ( plus the usual benefit of leadership resources generation) will become a GREAT  ally choice. But I agree with you: that is the (hypothetical) future. 

I definitely would like to see him become great. That is nothing I want to see less in the game than a card I never play, and especially one with such a nice art like Derufin. As for the ability, at least it seems better than ally Damrod’s, at least he is a guy I never ever play.

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3 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

I definitely would like to see him become great. That is nothing I want to see less in the game than a card I never play, and especially one with such a nice art like Derufin. As for the ability, at least it seems better than ally Damrod’s, at least he is a guy I never ever play.

Right damrod. Honestly I had forgotten he even existed for the number of time I played him.

Which make me wonder if the spirit gondor ally them would be to be discarded to reduce threat based on different conditions ( number of enemies in staging area , detroyed enemy threat,  progress made , explored location quest point...).

I do hope no; it's seem to me the wrong theme for gondor allies.

 But lets wait and see what the future holds for us.

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But I also thought about it, two unique guys who have it. Well, there is also Prince Imrahil and Emery who don’t. Am I missing others? Anyway, I don’t think we shall see many more Spirit Gondor allies.

What are your guesses toward Faramir and other allies in the box, I would like to see Leadership Boromir ally and Tactics Denethor but I doubt both...

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2 hours ago, lleimmoen said:

But I also thought about it, two unique guys who have it. Well, there is also Prince Imrahil and Emery who don’t. Am I missing others? Anyway, I don’t think we shall see many more Spirit Gondor allies.

What are your guesses toward Faramir and other allies in the box, I would like to see Leadership Boromir ally and Tactics Denethor but I doubt both...

Denetohr deserves a playable ally. The ine we got is honestly very bad. Not all card can be equally good but an iconic character like him deserves a better treatment ... as for the sphere either would make sense from deckbuilding perspective.

Leadership boromir would be nice even if conflicting with his hero card which is an anchor of most gondor deck. And a Bergil ally. Please.

On the contrary I think we will get few more spirit gondor ally, especially in case spirit aragorn would really have any gondor synergy (of which I'm personally convinced but that is not at all granted). In any case  you are right about other spirit gondor ally not having treath/discard ability although they do have ability related to a discard mechanism of a sort. Let's see and hope.

 

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